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  #21  
Old 11-27-2011, 04:25 PM
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swizzle swizzle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haji View Post
I don't think Nissan would put 370Z down market. Doing so would put them in an even more competitive market and would degrade the car from "affordable Boxter competitor" to "expensive GT86 rival".

2 liter 200 hp RWD sport car must be a very challenging market for manufacturers. Even Toyota had to work together with Subaru. I doubt Nissan has a potential to rival the GT86.
You actually BELIEVE Toyota needs Subaru with ZERO experience in RWD to design this vehicle?:nono: Do you not recall that the Datsun 510 and 240Z established Japanese RWD credibility?

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Originally Posted by Tidal View Post
A smaller Nissan RWD coupe/sports car has been rumoured for years and years now. They could team up with Renault ( whose Alpine brand comeback has been rumoured for years and years now... ) and sell the same car with different badges worldwide.

Oh, and if that is the Subaru... wow. Didn't even bother changing the wheels. Then again, they didn't even bother changing the engine cover.
You actually BELIEVE Nissan needs Renault with ZERO experience in RWD to design a competitor? :hammer:

It would not surprise me if the next Mustang goes in this direction.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2011, 08:28 PM
caarmike caarmike is offline
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I think in addition to getting help from Subaru on the engineering and manufacturing, Toyota should have also farmed out the exterior/interior design. They could have used one of the Italian design houses, or heck, even GM could have made a better looking body.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2011, 10:32 PM
2o6 2o6 is offline
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The specs are awesome. The rear is a hot mess an overall I feel te design is pretty generic and a mishmash of styling cues used all over he industry. Kinda generic to look at.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
You actually BELIEVE Toyota needs Subaru with ZERO experience in RWD to design this vehicle?:nono: Do you not recall that the Datsun 510 and 240Z established Japanese RWD credibility?
.
So are you saying Toyota worked together with Subaru for no technical reason?

And please, stop mentioning Datsuns and 240Zs. We are in 2010s. Things have changed.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2011, 03:38 AM
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So are you saying Toyota worked together with Subaru for no technical reason?

And please, stop mentioning Datsuns and 240Zs. We are in 2010s. Things have changed.
Where did I say that?

When Toyota essentially gobbled up Subaru they inherited engineers. Toyota saw a market for a low volume RWD car and assigned the low volume car to engineers at Subaru so those engineers would not be utilized for important projects such as the Camry and Prius which are Toyota's bread and butter. The facts are that Subaru has ZERO EXPERIENCE in RWD and they have NEVER made a successful sportscoupe.

As for the Datsuns, you're all giddy about the GT86 which draws on a yesterday icon so get beyond your own self.

PS: Wiseman, we're in 2011 almost 2012...you may want to get with the program.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2011, 04:57 AM
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MBsam MBsam is offline
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I am shocked to see other people liking this on other comment threads.

I'll temper my comments with the fact that this car is mostly like a very well balanced performance car with good engineering. They've done very well with the weight and that's to be commented

That said, I can't believe how dull looking this thing is. It's a melange of contrived sports car styling cues of the past decade. It lacks any feel of authenticity in it's design. It's like it wants to be taken so seriously as a big-bad grown up sports car and so it dresses up in all the requisite gear but somehow fails to fit in. Perhaps because the very essence of sports car design is NOT fitting in.

The interior is unspeakably bad. I don't know what I can add that their press shots don't already illustrate but my goodness the Kia Picanto has a far better interior then whatever we are looking at here. The shapes and textures are so contrived that a 1999 Mustang would be embarrassed to have that inside it's sheet metal.

Again, I'm sure it drives well but in this day and age we expect to have our cake and eat it too. This isn't cutting it for me.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2011, 08:10 AM
thedesigner thedesigner is offline
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Since this site is all about us sharing our 2 cents, here's mine:

It's hard to speak ill of this vehicle in ways that hasn't already been done... some things do need reiterating, such as why on this beautiful green Earth did Toyota decide to conjure up a schizoid has-nothing-to-do-with-the-headlights craptastic J.C. Whitney taillight design when EVERY single concept taillight was infinitely superior? And why has Toyota decided to give the car (whose functionally alluring low center of gravity is aptly shown off by the low slumping hood and low belt-line), an incompatibly squared-off, ass-kicked pseudo-LFA rump? Yes, the Celica had a sloping hood and a high butt, but it was a wedge... it looked RIGHT. This is anything but right and it's almost as though they did every last thing possible to make sure the rear was unresolved, inelegant and disconnected.

Yes, the interior is typically sober Japanese logic superimposed over Rubbermaid hysterics, but why is anyone surprised? Can anyone here actually recall a Toyota interior that made any (sporty) sense since the last Celica? Regardless, if the materials are right and we aren't obligated to play boy-racer two-tone, then things might get a little more sensible... still, it's not going to make my eyes want to spend any less time in a GTI.

I personally believe this hodge-podge, not for grownups, not for teens, bastard of a wasted opportunity is going to set back the cheap sports car market for another decade... and why? Because every major auto manufacturer is going to watch very closely to see if there's a market again for real-deal semi-affordable sports coupes... and what they're going to see is $22K, 300hp Mustangs and Camaros eating up America, the Genesis plugging along valiantly but anonymously, and the rest of the cheap to build (cuz they're already built on other platforms) FWD'ers picking up the demographic slack (Civic, Elantra, Veloster, Fiesta & Focus). What they're not going to see is this niche car with dramatically uninspiring looks lighting up the sales charts... anywhere.

It's a niche car... we should be thankful it exists at all-- the point has already been well made that a project like this is only likely possible because of the hideous melding of Toyota and Subaru. We all wanted a 20K RWD no-frills sports coupe, right? We're all willing to buy one instead of a 40mpg Elantra, right? Well here it is boys and girls... too bad it's a good old fashioned dog to look at... say all the nice things you want about its RWD stance and functional prowess... it's a friggin' Toyota, and their production designs are ok-d by either hospice-care elderly men sipping their last breath of life or LSD guzzling time-traveling cannibals from Mars... or hasn't anyone been paying attention for the past FIFTEEN YEARS? The only decent designs in that time span have come out of California (FJ cruiser, last gen Matrix, Celica)... everything else has been tumor-riddled plastic narcolepsy designed to satiate the masses, the masses... oh my lord, the masses.

I'm disappointed because off the top of my head I can recall at least 4 superior designs, nearly production ready, all around TEN years old, that steamroll this joke-mobile: Nissan Furio (for the sophisticated Euro set), Saturn Curve (for the Deco futurists), Dodge Razor (for the no frills un-poseur), and oh, yeah-- any FT86 concept (for the humble 21st century enthusiast). Every one of these designs reverberates with a visual rationale, an aesthetic raison d'Ítre that this homely let down could only dream about in its 2nd facelift 5 years from now.

If this thing isn't heralded as one of the greatest handling sports car of the 21st century it will have failed on every front... and even if it moves like spots on a cheetah, who really cares? Look at it--- there's good reason the 350z sold so dang well... mystique AND mojo.

Last edited by thedesigner; 11-28-2011 at 08:21 AM.
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2011, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Where did I say that?

When Toyota essentially gobbled up Subaru they inherited engineers. Toyota saw a market for a low volume RWD car and assigned the low volume car to engineers at Subaru so those engineers would not be utilized for important projects such as the Camry and Prius which are Toyota's bread and butter. The facts are that Subaru has ZERO EXPERIENCE in RWD and they have NEVER made a successful sportscoupe.

As for the Datsuns, you're all giddy about the GT86 which draws on a yesterday icon so get beyond your own self.

PS: Wiseman, we're in 2011 almost 2012...you may want to get with the program.
You are getting really off the topic and I'm not going to argue about all the engineer inherited crap.

First, you've mentioned above that Nissan will downmarket the Z car, and as I've replied it is hardly likely to happen.

Next, you've doubted whether Toyota really needed Subaru to create the GT86 and the answer is an obvious "yes". Use the machine in front of you to find out why.

Speaking about Datsuns and 240Zs is also nonsense. Year 2011 is almost over and credibility from the 60s (or 70s or whenever) is simply worthless today (or almost worthless, whichever).

Case closed. Please don't complain about this issue anymore.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:00 PM
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I have no problem being taken to task, but when you intentionally misstate and reword what I said that is not honorable and shows pettiness. The fact that you've taken this discourse here personally is utterly ridiculous.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2011, 02:22 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Moving the Nissan 370Z would be dumb - finally one Japanese sprts car that is - even in the difficult European market - seen as a credible competitor to Mercedes, BMW and even the Porsche Cayman.. SO many cars fail to be accepted world wide, so why risk that?

I don't say that a smaller RWD Nissan coupe would be dumb (and probably teaming up with Renault Sport aka. Ex- Alpine - Renault Sport models are usually seen as very credible hot versions, probably teh best on the market, and Alpines e.g. were always RWD - could be a clever solution), but rather bringing a smaller model, say a new 200SX/Sylvia, which had at least as many fans as the Corolla Trueno, not moving the Z downmarket. IMO there is enough space below the Z for a smaller car. The CLio Sort engine as base model (2liter high reving 200hp), and add teh Turbo charged Megne RS engine as option (280hp), and you don't even have to bother with engines anymore....
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