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  #1  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:37 PM
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disap.ed disap.ed is offline
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Default VW / FCA merger talk

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUSKBN16L1EL

Quote:
Volkswagen Chief Executive Matthias Mueller said he did not rule out he could hold merger talks with Fiat Chrysler boss Sergio Marchionne, in a marked change of tone by the German carmaker toward its Italian-American peer.

"I am not ruling out a conversation," Mueller told journalists after VW's annual results news conference.
Only last week, Mueller appeared to dismiss the prospect of talks with Fiat Chrysler (FCA), saying VW had enough on its plate as it struggled to overcome its emissions scandal and push a wide-ranging business transformation.
Can't see this happening with VW's current condition, and if yes, a HUGE blood letting brand wise would be necessary to make this feasible in any possible way. I know FCA is desperate for money, so I could see them selling just some brands (Piech still wants Alfa Romeo I guess).
I could also see them being interested in CNH industrial, but I don't know if FCA still has direct shares in this one or if the 27% Exor share is the only connection. Of the Ex-Chrysler brands I can only see Jeep and RAM being interesting for them.
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:06 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Well, apparently Muller and Marchionne are on a similar level of "knowing what we say publicly and remaining consistent". If, it makes sense for FCA management in terms ofd "selling assets and earning bonus", because I doubt FCA would have much or a bright future under the VW umbrella generally. VAG could do cherry picking (Alfa Romeo, as often said; Maserati? Jeep? FIat 500 "brand" as a Mini fighter?), and the Chrysler US Dealer network could be of interest, as would be finally a foothold in the profitable US truck market. But altogether, VAG would end up with even more brands than they already have a tough time to separate, and most FCA brands would likely loose most of what is left of their brand identity. No exactly what I see as win win.

But after the Opel/PSA deal, everything seems possible, as little sense as it might seem to make to the casual observer....
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
VAG would end up with even more brands than....
Maybe not as much as it would seem.

It's pretty clear that Lancia, Dodge, and Chrysler are dead. SEAT and Fiat would likely be merged. Maserati and their outdated Chrysler LX based products could be sold to a Chinese company. Ditto Alfa Romeo that is not that important to Europe and much less so here. Neither brand is well and both will require billions to reestablish them in the market.

The interesting thing would be if VW demands Ferrari which is a separate company but owned by the same entities as FCA.
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:01 AM
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Maybe not as much as it would seem.

It's pretty clear that Lancia, Dodge, and Chrysler are dead. SEAT and Fiat would likely be merged. Maserati and their outdated Chrysler LX based products could be sold to a Chinese company. Ditto Alfa Romeo that is not that important to Europe and much less so here. Neither brand is well and both will require billions to reestablish them in the market.

The interesting thing would be if VW demands Ferrari which is a separate company but owned by the same entities as FCA.
For years, VW was very keen on buying Alfa Romeo, so if anything happens, I'm rather certain that Alfa Romeo would be a key. I even go as far as saying the new,lightweight Giorgio platform might be of some interest, as - despite being the worlds largest manufacturer - has not on offer. If Maserati is in the package, I'm not sure, but probably would be relegated to some Aud rebadges a la Bentley Bentyaga, so more basically dead. I don't think Maserati has that great momentum in China, so a separate sale is not likely to have a large financial effect.

Lancia is dead already, no question, and Fiat probably very much so if the deal goes through, unless it remains a badge on Seats for Italy (like Vauxhall for Opel).. but in general, VW, seat and Skoda are already very difficult to separate, looking more or less identical, and targeting the same customers and pricing differences usually down to either engine choice or trim, but say mid spec 1.4 TSI or 2.0 TDIs costing roughly teh same, no matter which badge. SO how on earth they would position even more brands I don't know....

Ferrari will be an interesting thing. I can't even imagine what Sergio has in the works for them,and how often he will change his mind. Altogether, the whole thing is weird, with VW not being in it's best financial position, FCA a bit to big for a clean take over by VAG, way too cash strapped for making a deal themselves and the whole merger thing making even less sense than Daimler Chrysler back in 1998.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:37 PM
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VWAG was after Alfa Romeo because of Piech. Piech is gone. Is it really a draw?

Obviously, Jeep and Ram are the draw.

If VWAG were dumb enough to go RWD with Alfa Romeo, they would surely go with Porsche that has a better RWD platform than the mongrel that the Giorgio is.

I believe that Fiat and Seat would get merged, but it could be that Seat gets killed and Alfa Romeo is given the Seat spot of being the spicy FWD/AWD brand...which it what it should have been under FCA in the first place.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:50 PM
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VWAG was after Alfa Romeo because of Piech. Piech is gone. Is it really a draw?
Piech is mostly gone, but still not totally. Apparently in May the Porsche part of teh family will try to oust him finally. but, until he is gone 100%, I will still say that he survived quite a lot of managers in the VW/Porsche universe, it seems a bit as he is "unkillable". Surely as long as he has any say left through his share capital, he will want Alfa Romeo (as little sense as it might make to the rest of the world), because he once declared he wanted them.

But then again, this is so far a rumor, and we know nothing about the whole thing, so all we have are a few speculations.

Platform wise we know that MLB Evo will likely die with this generation of cars (let#s face it, a longitudinal FWD platform makes very little sense), and the MSB (RWD by Porsche) will be mainly for large cars (in other words: too large/heavy/expensive for mid sized vehicles), so everything smaller move to MQB in the VW universe (including the Audi A4). Giving them a smaller - and lightweight, let's not forget that - RWD/AWD platform might be attractive, if only as a base for a rework or mostly new development. But, asagin, this is pure speculation.

Probably we will end up with something entirely unexpected, or, as with 97% of Sergio's announcements, with nothing at all.....
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:07 PM
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Marchionne says NO

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/mar...terest-in.html

I'm sure this will change tomorrow or next week.
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2017, 09:45 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Meanwhile, Consumer Reports can barely test the Giulia.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...r-service-bay/

Is it really a good idea for two companies that both have significant quality-control issues to join forces?
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:28 AM
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I suspect Technology sharing as a first step.
Chassis
Engines,
etc.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjl35 View Post
Marchionne says NO

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/mar...terest-in.html

I'm sure this will change tomorrow or next week.
It also would not surprise me if VWAG said "We want Jeep and Ram, but nothing else."
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