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  #21  
Old 03-03-2017, 03:14 PM
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IcedG35 IcedG35 is offline
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Sorry, but the sales numbers simply do not show that. It is selling at a fraction of the comparable Mercedes and BMW models.
your phantom sales numbers aside, your expectations are beyond unrealistic if you think they'll sell BMW/Mercedes figures overnight. they would never have the capacity, even if they had the buyers. Sales at Jaguar were up over 200% in the last months of 2016. That's a success.
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IcedG35 View Post
your phantom sales numbers aside, your expectations are beyond unrealistic if you think they'll sell BMW/Mercedes figures overnight. they would never have the capacity, even if they had the buyers. Sales at Jaguar were up over 200% in the last months of 2016. That's a success.
Phantom sales numbers? Those numbers are readily available on the Internet as reported by manufacturers. The F Pace is simply obliterated by its competition.

When your numbers are laughable and then you have a 200% increase in sales, but you numbers are still laughable, that is NOT a success. That's fanboy cheering to say it's a success. Even with the F Pace, Jaguar is not sustainable on its own and is floating only because of LR/RR's profits. The XE has been a stunning failure.

Competent product simply cannot come fast enough.
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  #23  
Old 03-03-2017, 04:32 PM
Swallow Doretti Swallow Doretti is offline
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Phantom sales numbers? Those numbers are readily available on the Internet as reported by manufacturers. The F Pace is simply obliterated by its competition.
Jaguar Land Rover is now the fifth-largest global luxury brand, and is rivaling Lexus into the fourth slot. I do not understand why you continue to discuss Jaguar as though it's completely independent of Land Rover, despite the fact that, aside from a handful of stand-alone Land Rover dealerships scattered around the world, operations are fully merged.

As for the F-Pace specifically, it's on track to surpass Macan in sales, and has one of the lowest days supply of any vehicle in the US.
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  #24  
Old 03-03-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
Jaguar Land Rover is now the fifth-largest global luxury brand, and is rivaling Lexus into the fourth slot. I do not understand why you continue to discuss Jaguar as though it's completely independent of Land Rover, despite the fact that, aside from a handful of stand-alone Land Rover dealerships scattered around the world, operations are fully merged.

As for the F-Pace specifically, it's on track to surpass Macan in sales, and has one of the lowest days supply of any vehicle in the US.
I think Jaguar is a brand that deserves better, but the patient is very sick still.

US sales numbers tell a less rosy story. For Jaguar to be a viable brand in the United States, it needs to have a lot more sales. [Spare the the howling about how the USA isn't the only market.] If Jaguar doesn't sell in greater volume, dealers will be less inclined to maintain inventory and parts/service support. Jaguar has actually lost many of its stand alone dealers due to them not being economically viable in the market.

Your illogic would say that there is no pressure on Cadillac to perform because it's a part if GM, so it can continue to be irrelevant in the market. Yes Jaguar is insulated by the massive profit from Land Rover and Range Rover sales, but the XJ, XF, and XE are trampled under foot. The F Pace is a bright-ish spot, but it's just not the sales game-changer that Jaguar needs to be fully a part of the profit generation of JLR.

More crossovers both larger and smaller simply cannot come fast enough for Jaguar's sake.
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  #25  
Old 03-03-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Phantom sales numbers? Those numbers are readily available on the Internet as reported by manufacturers. The F Pace is simply obliterated by its competition.

When your numbers are laughable and then you have a 200% increase in sales, but you numbers are still laughable, that is NOT a success. That's fanboy cheering to say it's a success. Even with the F Pace, Jaguar is not sustainable on its own and is floating only because of LR/RR's profits. The XE has been a stunning failure.

Competent product simply cannot come fast enough.
I'm hardly a fanboy of Jaguar, let alone any other brand (except maybe Porsche lately). Instead, its logic, as further explained by Swallow Doretti below. Your only point of comparison is the two best selling luxury brands in the world. Why don't you compare ACTUAL FIGURES of sales GROWTH of Jaguar to Cadillac, Infiniti, Porsche, or Lexus? That's actually a meaningful and relevant comparison versus "Jaguar sells a lot less than Mercedes and BMW so it's doing really poorly". No ones arguing they need more crossovers, but to ignore the impact the F-Pace has had on Jaguar sales is ridiculous, as is to ignore the incredible growth they've experienced. if a dealer sold twice as many cars last year as it had the year before, which was likely it's best year ever, then they're motivated...
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  #26  
Old 03-03-2017, 11:22 PM
Swallow Doretti Swallow Doretti is offline
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
For Jaguar to be a viable brand in the United States, it needs to have a lot more sales. [Spare the the howling about how the USA isn't the only market.] If Jaguar doesn't sell in greater volume, dealers will be less inclined to maintain inventory and parts/service support. Jaguar has actually lost many of its stand alone dealers due to them not being economically viable in the market.
What part of, "I do not understand why you continue to discuss Jaguar as though it's completely independent of Land Rover, despite the fact that, aside from a handful of stand-alone Land Rover dealerships scattered around the world, operations are fully merged," was not clear?

It is not an either/or option. The brands share engineering, marketing and communications, dealerships, service and after-sales support, and financing functions, personnel and resources across the board from top-to-bottom in all global markets. By the end of 2018, only a few dozen Land Rover dealerships globally will be left as standalone stores--and those are in markets like Dar es Salaam in Tanzania, where the need for the Jaguar brand is nil, but Land Rover still does a brisk business.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
As for the F-Pace specifically, it's on track to surpass Macan in sales, and has one of the lowest days supply of any vehicle in the US.
The starting price point of the Macan is nearly 20.000€ over the F-Pace (at least in our Country), the F-Pace numbers should be compared to the ones of Q5 / X3 / GLC.

But I am glad that their sales are rising, of course with 150.000 cars a year they are still a farcry away from the Germans or even Volvo's half a million+ (Lexus being also in this range). Still better than Alfa's ridiculous sales (including the unrealistic forecasts) though.
They also have the E-Pace coming next, which will surely help a lot with pushing sales numbers.

Last edited by disap.ed; 03-04-2017 at 09:43 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:44 AM
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I wish Honda chose such a design for the Civic. The rear end reminds me of the 90's Integra but with a contemporary sleekness. I like this
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  #29  
Old 03-08-2017, 04:43 PM
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Does this work?




edit, it looks like it does, this looks less like an suv and more like a jacked up hatch, like the GLA.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2017, 04:48 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Actually this could belong into the spy shots section, as this is already the production version. Good it looks very close to the concept.
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