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  #1  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:16 AM
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ElementW ElementW is offline
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Default No Mazda RX-9

http://www.carscoops.com/2016/12/maz...ays-no-to.html

Old news, but in case some of you might have missed it...
According to the CEO of Mazda, a rotary powered sports car is not in the cards now, nor will be in the foreseeable future. The Miata... ahem MX-5 will take care of the sports car side in the line up.

A real shame, when Nissan has the GT-R, Honda the NSX and Toyota about to produce the Supra again. Still, business wise it might not be a wrong move since Mazda is a small independent company in a sea of giants. Thus they have to focus and invest wisely which is in their profit generating products.

But who knows, might they change their minds later? Possibly.
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:46 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Originally Posted by ElementW View Post
http://www.carscoops.com/2016/12/maz...ays-no-to.html
A real shame, when Nissan has the GT-R, Honda the NSX and Toyota about to produce the Supra again. Still, business wise it might not be a wrong move since Mazda is a small independent company in a sea of giants.
That is the main reason. Given the size of Mazda, they can't do "crazy stuff" and yet have realistically cash for competitive normal cars that keep selling. Look at Mitsubishi, they had great Evos, and one could think that all their R&D budget went there, given the mediocrity (in best case, sometimes below) of the rest of their lineup, that made them run out of cash for further EVOs.

Also, given teh experience with RX8 reliability and the comparably small fan base, I'm not sure a new RX would have been such a great "hallo car" at all. And then we have not yet talked about how much work would be needed to make a Wankel that is compatible with emission standards that will be standard in say 3 years or when sales would start (apparently there was no way to make the Renesis motor - which was all new for the RX8 - compatible with emission standards in the US and EU just few years after launch), let alone a Wankel that really doesn't eat oil, fuel and it's chamber sealing like crazy....
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2016, 02:11 PM
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No new RX-9 is hardly a loss. After the first two generations of the RX-7, Mazda mismanaged the rotary franchise by making the 3rd generation of the RX-7 far too expensive and then took it all to weird with the RX-8. Factor in the rotary being an example of failed technology (piston engines are better able to generate power and torque reliably without excessive oil consumption) and there simply is no point.

Doing a rotary for a vehicle that may in a good year sell 15K units worldwide would get shut down for a lack of a business case.

The problem with the Japanese sports cars is that they are either too stupidly expensive (NSX and GTR), woefully outdated and easily pummeled by a Mustang (370Z), or slow and so-so handling (GT86 and Miata).

If the Supra comes priced like the GTR and NSX it will be dead in the water for sales, but priced like a Mustang GT/GT350 and the 370Z and it could be noteworthy. I suspect it will be another masturbatory "halo" car like the NSX and GTR.

As for the 370Z, how much longer will its outdated ugliness continue?

And for the old men who wax poetic about the Miata and GT86's "balance" (AKA lack of power and idiot-proof-but-not-engaging handling) let them have their geriatric wheezermobiles, but for those of us with a pulse, 300 horsepower please.
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Old 12-12-2016, 02:26 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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If the Supra comes priced like the GTR and NSX it will be dead in the water for sales, but priced like a Mustang GT/GT350 and the 370Z and it could be noteworthy. I suspect it will be another masturbatory "halo" car like the NSX and GTR.
Given the Supra will be a close cousin to the next BMW Z Roadster (presumably called Z5 to move it upmarket in people's perception, I guess a "Z4 plus 5-10%"" price range seems realistic. Not a discount car, but way off GT-R let alone NSX pricing. ALso pricing the Supra in these regions would interfere with Lexus resp. the LC500 (which, btw.,still undercuts the other 2 by a significant margin at least in Europe; granted, it's more of a GT than a halo car, but still, their most expensove coupe).

The 370Z is probably dead with this generation, there have already been rumors of the next Z car of being more of a cross over, and whilst a 2 door SUV sports car sounds a bit crazy, remember, Nissan also gave us the Murano Convertible (or the Juke). Given how small the not top of the range coupe market is world wide (well, let's be honest, apart from the Miata, no small sports coupe or convertible sell in larger figures aas well), I do see the business case in killing it, even if enthusiast would cry, however, making a too good and quick Z would just mean the same problem for the Nissan GT-R as a too good Boxster/Cayman would be for the Porsche 911, so that even adds to the "Z is dead" rumors, at least or me....
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Old 12-12-2016, 05:25 PM
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The next GTR needs to become an Infiniti GTR.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:10 PM
Swallow Doretti Swallow Doretti is offline
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Factor in the rotary being an example of failed technology (piston engines are better able to generate power and torque reliably without excessive oil consumption) and there simply is no point.
Rotaries also have a bear of a time meeting ever increasingly stringent emissions requirements.

Sports cars and sporty coupes as a class are doing badly as well. It's one thing for a wealthy automaker like Toyota or Nissan or GM to do something as a vanity project, but when even Mustang and Camaro sales are seeing downturns, having two sports cars in Mazda's line-up makes no sense.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2016, 12:02 PM
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Piston engines are far from perfect. Businesses simply do not search for perfection, just for profit.

Swizzle may have his opinion, but it is just that, an opinion without technical background knowledge, i.e. worthless.

I don't know what the fuss is with all this Mazda praise: exterior design is Italian, interior design French, engine design is Toyota's, and all is bland and boring and expensive.
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2016, 12:30 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
Given the Supra will be a close cousin to the next BMW Z Roadster (presumably called Z5 to move it upmarket in people's perception, I guess a "Z4 plus 5-10%"" price range seems realistic. Not a discount car, but way off GT-R let alone NSX pricing. ALso pricing the Supra in these regions would interfere with Lexus resp. the LC500 (which, btw.,still undercuts the other 2 by a significant margin at least in Europe; granted, it's more of a GT than a halo car, but still, their most expensove coupe).

The 370Z is probably dead with this generation, there have already been rumors of the next Z car of being more of a cross over, and whilst a 2 door SUV sports car sounds a bit crazy, remember, Nissan also gave us the Murano Convertible (or the Juke). Given how small the not top of the range coupe market is world wide (well, let's be honest, apart from the Miata, no small sports coupe or convertible sell in larger figures aas well), I do see the business case in killing it, even if enthusiast would cry, however, making a too good and quick Z would just mean the same problem for the Nissan GT-R as a too good Boxster/Cayman would be for the Porsche 911, so that even adds to the "Z is dead" rumors, at least or me....
The 718 will unlikely disappear, it would rather turn to be a true poor man's 911. As I said many times about the 911, it grew bigger and is lost between sport and GT, so Porsche should change its product portfolio. With the current R8 possibly the last generation, and Porsche not making its '959', the next generation might move to the new modular sportscar platform with mid-rear engine layout. With hybridization, AWD might be electric only (no front power transfer with from ICE). This platform would be the base of Huracan successor an 911 and 718. Current 911 and 718 already share a huge amount of parts, previously they even shared engines. The GT side of 911 might come in the form of 928 or Panamera Coupé, which technically already exists with the Bentley badge, next generation Continental GT. As the coming Audi A6/A7/A8 will for the last time use MLB platform, they will then use Porsche platform if ICE, the A4 might use MKB platform and be FWD like they changed the Passat with previous generation.

There is no Nissan Z successor, unless like Toyota/BMW, Nissan/Daimler develop a Z/SLC car together, just as Daimler did with Chrysler, SLK/Crossfire.

Managers and marketeers are incredibly short-sighted and are a simply incapable to coordinate long-term market plans with long-term production plans. For their sake, BEVs better get mass market potential and the end of some ICE life-cycle, of it will cost them a lot.
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2016, 06:44 PM
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Naga Royal Guard Naga Royal Guard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post

There is no Nissan Z successor, unless like Toyota/BMW, Nissan/Daimler develop a Z/SLC car together, just as Daimler did with Chrysler, SLK/Crossfire.
.
Unlike the 300C, the Crossfire was infact Chrysler raiding MB's junk bin for an old chassis to build a small sportscar. The new SLK would later debut with updated or redesigned underparts.

That merger was the worst thing ever.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2016, 11:34 PM
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...

That merger was the worst thing ever.
Debatable. Marchionne's rape of Chrysler is just as heinous as Gestapo-Benz.
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