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  #21  
Old 05-10-2014, 04:38 PM
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swizzle swizzle is offline
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Reading some of the stuff at Allpar is pretty perplexing. The Dart for example will continue being its overpriced flawed self until 2016 when it will get a refresh.

So much of the product is years out and it makes me wonder if Fiat simply does not have the cash to make product happen. The Jeep Cherokee should have been followed quickly by a totally reskinned version as the Dodge Journey.

Chrysler is being refocused as the new Plymouth. Given that Plymouth died....

Alfa Romeo continues to be vapor. There should have been a reskinned Dart with a better engine as an Alfa sold through Fiat dealers. Yes I know that the Dart is an Alfa.
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  #22  
Old 05-11-2014, 09:41 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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FCA does not need Chrysler and Dodge. Killing Chrysler and making Dodge the mainstream brand would have made much more sense than killing Dodge or now keeping it AND Chrysler alive. Keeping Dodge makes tons of sense for it's nameplates like Dart, Charger, and Challenger. The 200 could have revived the Coronet name. The Chrysler 300 could have become a Dodge Monaco and the Charger could have been made into a coupesedan. There was also no need to spin Ram off as a separate brand.

Their structure should have been:

Fiat as a budget-priced "Mini" franchise

Dodge as the mainstream brand

Alfa Romeo as an affordable near premium brand based on Fiat/Dodge platforms

Jeep as the container of all SUVs and CUVs

Maserati a dollar for dollar Mercedes competitor



The one thing I will give VW credit for is their TDI engines. FCA needs their own "TDI" engined vehicles, much more hybridization, and plug in hybrids.

Where is the Maserati to compete with Tesla? A Maserati "Tesla" would be delicious
You clearly don't know anything about Italian automobile brands. Rather than your "proposition", I would prefer the brands to completely die out like Lancia. At least they can be one day resurrected, by a guy who has brain (and money), what Sergio obviously doesn't have either.
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  #23  
Old 05-11-2014, 02:23 PM
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swizzle swizzle is offline
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You clearly don't know anything about Italian automobile brands...
It's got NOTHING to do with antiquated notions of what a brand used to be once back in Vaporland. Facts ARE facts, however. FCA needs a marketing strategy that is pragmatic and not bound by the desires of the Alfisti. Alfa Romeo is virtually dead even in Italy. It is NOT the equivalent of BMW, Mercedes, or Audi and has had a despicable reputation for quality and reliability historically. Meanwhile, Marchionne says Maserati is FCA's BMW/Mercedes competitor. Alfa does not need to inhabit the same segment! That is marketing idiocy. Thus letting Alfa go near premium IS the better choice.
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  #24  
Old 05-12-2014, 09:30 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
It's got NOTHING to do with antiquated notions of what a brand used to be once back in Vaporland. Facts ARE facts, however. FCA needs a marketing strategy that is pragmatic and not bound by the desires of the Alfisti. Alfa Romeo is virtually dead even in Italy. It is NOT the equivalent of BMW, Mercedes, or Audi and has had a despicable reputation for quality and reliability historically. Meanwhile, Marchionne says Maserati is FCA's BMW/Mercedes competitor. Alfa does not need to inhabit the same segment! That is marketing idiocy. Thus letting Alfa go near premium IS the better choice.
Maserati is no Mercedes/BMW/Audi rival. The cars cost so much more, yet are technically inferior, just as Aston Martin and Lotus (saved by Toyota engines). Maserati is more of a Porsche rival. And Alfa is BMW rival. Before BMW was called "German Alfa Romeo". Everything is the fault of Fiat, they killed all brands, including Fiat themselves, by thinking cars sell themselves, even if they are not good. If Alfa's next car is a "near premium" FWD crap, then I'm again not getting any Alfa.

It is not marketing that these Italian brands need, it is just good products, they'll in this case sell themselves.

All these latest cars that came out, Quattroporte, Ghibli, 4C, are half baked, that is why they are too expensive for what they are. Making them cheaper, will not improve anything (sales or image), on the contrary it will just worsen their prestigious image.

There are not many solutions for FCA;
1. distinguish each brand from each other in terms of class (mainstream, premium, exotic, etc.) - unlike VAG,

OR

2. let every brand to develop freely - also unlike VAG where they are artificially restricting development due to internal competition.


If they don't respond to desires of Alfistis as you say, they'll never ever sell any cars. It is because they stopped responding to their desires, that Alfa is in such a situation now.
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  #25  
Old 05-12-2014, 12:36 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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I think discounting cars where they compete today as to where they want to be positioned in the future is wrong. For example, 7 years ago, Caddy would NEVER have been compared to BMW; with the current ATS / CTS - its a very valid comparison. However, Caddy knew where they wanted to be - so took the path to get there. The same can be said about Alfa being compared to BMW...sure, today? Not so much - but give them time, and it very well could happen.
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  #26  
Old 05-12-2014, 12:46 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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I think discounting cars where they compete today as to where they want to be positioned in the future is wrong. For example, 7 years ago, Caddy would NEVER have been compared to BMW; with the current ATS / CTS - its a very valid comparison. However, Caddy knew where they wanted to be - so took the path to get there. The same can be said about Alfa being compared to BMW...sure, today? Not so much - but give them time, and it very well could happen.
Yes, the same as what happened to Audi and Lexus. The advantage and source of Alfa's potential, is the heritage they have, something that is was not with Lexus, and not as strong with Audi.

However, I don't get how it took Fiat one full decade to understand the wrong positioning of Alfa. They had one decade to get it right, they could have been a more affordable Porsche rival, that is also what they must strive for (in the short-term).
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  #27  
Old 05-12-2014, 01:30 PM
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Maserati is no Mercedes/BMW/Audi rival. The cars cost so much more, yet are technically inferior, just as...
Marchionne has stated that FCA is pitting Maserati against BMW/Mercedes.
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  #28  
Old 05-12-2014, 01:45 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Marchionne has stated that FCA is pitting Maserati against BMW/Mercedes.
Yes, with the Ghibli, and a more conservative Quattroporte the are. However, they are going at the top end of the Mercedes/BMW lineups mainly, so not really a "dollar per Dollar" approach. And "Maserati" does still sound sexier than 5 series or E-Class (especially when the Merc is the standard Taxi cab in various European countries), and so farthey seem to sell all Masers they can build, no matter the price.
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  #29  
Old 05-12-2014, 02:28 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Marchionne has stated that FCA is pitting Maserati against BMW/Mercedes.
Ok, didn't read that. That that is more Porsche to me than Mercedes. Porsche will also have an E Class rival, and God forbid Maserati to have a Mercedes A Class rival.
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  #30  
Old 05-12-2014, 04:27 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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However, I don't get how it took Fiat one full decade to understand the wrong positioning of Alfa. They had one decade to get it right, they could have been a more affordable Porsche rival, that is also what they must strive for (in the short-term).
Who knows...likely they were deploying their cash as they could; meaning, get the balance sheets in order - then build from that.

I suspect it's a similar story now....thankfully Chrysler is showing profitability - which is (ironically) keeping the other side of the equation (Fiat/Alfa) - the 'saviors' of Chrysler afloat.
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