CarSpyShots
Quick Member Login:
Forgot password?
Forum Statistics:
Forum Members:
Total Threads:
Total Posts:


There are users
currently browsing forums.
  FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-15-2017, 02:20 AM
MrMGMan MrMGMan is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 302
Default

This seems to make sense on a purely financial level. GM has always struggled to make consistent profits from their European operations, while PSA has managed a fairly miraculous turnaround over the past five years, going from losing over 5 billion in 2012, to a very healthy profit margin of almost 7% for 2015/6.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-15-2017, 03:34 AM
swizzle's Avatar
swizzle swizzle is offline
Raconteur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 23,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
GM isn't buying PSA. PSA is considering buying Opel from GM.
Several reports said the OPPOSITE when I wrote that.

That said, PSA had and still has excess production space that buying Opel would exacerbate and let's not even mention the overlapping models.

Why would GM give up European sales?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-15-2017, 07:39 AM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMGMan View Post
while PSA has managed a fairly miraculous turnaround over the past five years, going from losing over 5 billion in 2012, to a very healthy profit margin of almost 7% for 2015/6.
So it might make sense for GM to get rid of Opel, but what does PSA get out of this?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:41 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
CSS Oldtimer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 7,506
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMGMan View Post
This seems to make sense on a purely financial level. GM has always struggled to make consistent profits from their European operations, while PSA has managed a fairly miraculous turnaround over the past five years, going from losing over 5 billion in 2012, to a very healthy profit margin of almost 7% for 2015/6.
I think most of their profit was done by reducing engines, platforms and great business in China (PSA with dongfeng is big there). I doubt they can work miracles on Opel, although I think it is nowadays not the products that make Opel loose money (gone are the days of dreary Vectras and rusty Astras), but rather how they are mostly a Euro only brand although being actually sold globally, just in most non EU markets as Chevy, Buick or Holden, so profits generated elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Why would GM give up European sales?
This remains the biggest question for me. Even if PSA would - in a similar deal as GM tried to offload Saab - just receive the plant and brand name from GM, but not the platforms, GM would have to either relaunch Chevrolet (and after the "here is Daewoo, no actually now Chevrolet, hey, here are now our Euro friendly models aaaaaand we are gone form Europe" that could not work) or use some new brand name (Buick? Holden?), but I really see no point in giving up on the whole European market, including their European R&D centers....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-15-2017, 01:15 PM
drugmirko drugmirko is offline
CSS Oldtimer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Why in hell would GM want PSA? All I can imagine is to put them out of business. Merging with a company that has no cutting edge engineering prowess is absurd. Maybe GM is doing this and will send De Nysschen to work his magic on PSA so Cadillac can be saved.
well... judging by the havoc GM caused on PSA development plans since their "cooperation" started in 2009 (delaying C-Elysse/301 because "we both could use Chevrolet models for low end"; cancelation of PSA own double clutch gearbox development, because "you could use GM's; cancelation of C5 successor, because " we should jointly develop Insignia, C5 and 508 successor and produce it in vacant Opel factory; delaying EMP1 platform so it would suit Corsa/C3/DS3/208 quadriplets.... etc, etc.), you might be right in "putting them out of business" part...


btw... here's how might new logo look like, this sell becomes reality...


Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-15-2017, 04:35 PM
MrMGMan MrMGMan is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 302
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
So it might make sense for GM to get rid of Opel, but what does PSA get out of this?
Economies of scale. If Peugeot's modular platforms and engines can be cost-effective spread across a production output of 1.5 million vehicles, imagine how much more cost-effective they'd be spread across another 1.1 million units.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-15-2017, 05:03 PM
boston boston is offline
CSS Oldtimer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,029
Default

Opel has been a mess for decades. Overly powerful Unions stopping the closing of poor plants.

VW used its name factory to open factories in low cost countries bypassing the German roots.

Vauxhall.....I just don't know what to say about that. Be sad to see the brand die, but its been on life support for decades.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:30 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMGMan View Post
Economies of scale. If Peugeot's modular platforms and engines can be cost-effective spread across a production output of 1.5 million vehicles, imagine how much more cost-effective they'd be spread across another 1.1 million units.
Does Opel have a lot of production capacity outside of Germany? My understanding is that all PSA would conceivably get is a factory in Germany. The production costs there would be quite high, no?

Edit --> Never mind, this article explains a bit more:

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/gm...ugeot-citroen/

Last edited by paranoidgarliclover; 02-15-2017 at 10:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-16-2017, 12:49 AM
swizzle's Avatar
swizzle swizzle is offline
Raconteur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 23,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMGMan View Post
...imagine how much more cost-effective they'd be spread across another 1.1 million units.
This presumes the venture wouldn't lose sales.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:34 AM
Levi Levi is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 412
Default

Almost every brand is doomed. Better to take risks a have some hope of winning, than do nothing and hope everything will go well. I can think of very few brands that deliver what customers want/need. One of them is Dacia. PSA and Opel? Nothing really. If they went full electric and plug-in hybrid, that could have been something. But they are too afraid, and it will cost them. The tech by itself is available, and other than battery, will not evolve much in 10 years.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:38 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Black Falcon Media Group Oy