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  #211  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CosworthKid View Post
I didn't mean Bangle specifically though, just the general BMW trademark C-Pillar which has been adopted by many car makers since. How do you mean starving the replacement program?
I'd suspect he's pointing to the following:

The new Fiesta is really the old one mildly tinkered with.

The new Focus is not a radical leap forward.

Both are OK looking and certainly not ugly, but not breathtaking.

The current Fusdeo was a stunner when it was revealed in 2012 for 2013, but it's long in tooth at this point and Ford is apparently is doing the Audi thing of making new cars that are indistinguishable from the previous ones.

2018 Mustang looks like a 2015 and not "new" enough.
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  #212  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
I'd suspect he's pointing to the following:

The new Fiesta is really the old one mildly tinkered with.

The new Focus is not a radical leap forward.

Both are OK looking and certainly not ugly, but not breathtaking.

The current Fusdeo was a stunner when it was revealed in 2012 for 2013, but it's long in tooth at this point and Ford is apparently is doing the Audi thing of making new cars that are indistinguishable from the previous ones.

2018 Mustang looks like a 2015 and not "new" enough.
Well Mazda is following the same tactic and its working perfectly for them. Why would any company take massive risks and spend billions in redeveloping cars which are perfectly fine as they are? The Focus looks like its going to be a great looker in and out, no less 'stunning' than any other car of its segment really. The Fiesta won't even be sold in the US and other markets like Australia, so updating the current car (which is brilliant) and focusing more on improving built quality and interiors is also a sensible choice. As for the Mustang, well its only a mild update so what did everyone expect? As for the Fusion, i don't think it ever was a 'stunner'. I actually still think the previous Mondeo was a better looking car in many ways. I'm looking forward to the new Fusion/Mondeo, hopefully it resolves the issues with the current car - shouldn't look as bloated/heavy, larger wheel arches and a more inspired interior would work for me.
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  #213  
Old 12-09-2017, 02:26 PM
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...Why would any company take massive risks and spend billions in redeveloping cars which are perfectly fine as they are?..
You're absolutely right. Laziness is a recipe for success.

Mazda is far from being on steady ground as a manufacturer worldwide which is why they are cozied up with Toyota: protection. In some key markets Mazda is struggling big time. In this market the 6 is a disaster for sales. The 3 isn't in the hunt with the Corolla/Civic. Mazda's crossovers aren't even selling quickly in their respective segments. They are in essence getting pounded by the competition.

In the sedan wars given a collapsing market, market share will not come down to mechanicals because most cars these days are reasonably reliable. What will sell cars is style.

Here, the 2013 Fusion replaced a box-on-box design with style and sales took off.

Playing it safe is a recipe for declining sales. Taking risks in risky. You may fail, but if you win you win big and THAT is how to play the sedan/hatchback wars.
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  #214  
Old 12-09-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
You're absolutely right. Laziness is a recipe for success.

Mazda is far from being on steady ground as a manufacturer worldwide which is why they are cozied up with Toyota: protection. In some key markets Mazda is struggling big time. In this market the 6 is a disaster for sales. The 3 isn't in the hunt with the Corolla/Civic. Mazda's crossovers aren't even selling quickly in their respective segments. They are in essence getting pounded by the competition.

In the sedan wars given a collapsing market, market share will not come down to mechanicals because most cars these days are reasonably reliable. What will sell cars is style.

Here, the 2013 Fusion replaced a box-on-box design with style and sales took off.

Playing it safe is a recipe for declining sales. Taking risks in risky. You may fail, but if you win you win big and THAT is how to play the sedan/hatchback wars.
Yesterday I was at a Kia dealership and a gal was very interested in the Kia Stinger. She said to her husband, "This car is hotter than hell." I am glad they took the risk and decided to produce this car. I believe Kia has a real winner with the Stinger.
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  #215  
Old 12-09-2017, 05:04 PM
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Yesterday I was at a Kia dealership and a gal was very interested in the Kia Stinger. She said to her husband, "This car is hotter than hell." I am glad they took the risk and decided to produce this car. I believe Kia has a real winner with the Stinger.
THAT!

Crossovers can be phoned in because they are the "in" thing, but sedans and hatchbacks will need to get scrappy.
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  #216  
Old 12-09-2017, 07:36 PM
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Why should Ford pour resources into radical changes for the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion etc when they would almost certainly get better returns investing in safe-bet crossovers? It doesn’t make business sense.

That being said, the argument could be made that they’re stretching out model cycles a bit too much - the current Focus will be at least 7 years old once the new gen is out, and the same looks likely of the Fusion considering there haven’t been any prototypes spotted yet.
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  #217  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:15 PM
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Why should Ford pour resources into radical changes for the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion etc when they would almost certainly get better returns investing in safe-bet crossovers? It doesn’t make business sense.

That being said, the argument could be made that they’re stretching out model cycles a bit too much - the current Focus will be at least 7 years old once the new gen is out, and the same looks likely of the Fusion considering there haven’t been any prototypes spotted yet.
Why? If they want to remain a force in the segment is why. Ford clearly is conceding the B segment by not doing a new Fiesta and instead doing a minor nip/tuck on the old one. They are probably conceding the C segment given how long it will take the next Focus to go on sale in the USA. Ford is being reactive rather than proactive. Where is Mulally when you need him?
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  #218  
Old 12-10-2017, 01:30 AM
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Ford clearly is conceding the B segment by not doing a new Fiesta and instead doing a minor nip/tuck on the old one.
Are you talking about in Europe or the US? In the US, Ford is dropping the Fiesta entirely and I agree that is clearly conceding the market. Delaying the Focus and moving it to China isn't great either.

I wouldn't call the new Fiesta Europe is getting a "minor nip/tuck", it's a redesign on a carryover platform and Ford is not the first to do that. For that matter, the Fiesta was the 4th best-selling car in Europe last year despite being a 9-year-old design, so an evolutionary approach to what is clearly a successful product seems reasonable to me.

Basically I don't think there's a problem with the cars themselves, now the way Ford is going about selling them (or not) in the US, that's a different story.
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  #219  
Old 12-10-2017, 04:12 PM
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Are you talking about in Europe or the US? In the US...
Not aimed at you, but let's end this once and for all. I am speaking ONLY about the NA market. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE here cares about ANY market other than the one he's in and knows directly. For anyone to pretend otherwise would be disingenuous.

The Fiesta is essentially a minor restyling job. It needed to be replaced with a platform designed from the get go for electrification (hybrid/EV). The fact that Ford said "Well, it sells OK, so why invest in something new when a 9-year-old design sells OK.?" will be what they point back to as the cause of their inevitable market downturn as the 9-year-old Fiesta becomes the 18-year-old Fiesta.

And so on.

At least the Focus is a more thorough redesign than the Fiesta.
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  #220  
Old 12-10-2017, 05:29 PM
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NO ONE and I mean NO ONE here cares about ANY market other than the one he's in and knows directly. For anyone to pretend otherwise would be disingenuous.
Speak for yourself.

And when you keep mentioning a “minor restyling” for the Fiesta, what are you talking about? If you’re not talking about the European Fiesta, because nothing outside America exists as far as you’re concerned, are you referring to the 2014 facelift? That’s the last time the Fiesta received any changes in the US. All indications are that Ford is going to discontinue the Fiesta in the US, which I’ve already mentioned.
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