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  #101  
Old 10-15-2008, 08:13 AM
MCLAREN P_10 MCLAREN P_10 is offline
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No problem at all and thanks for asking again I over looked it somehow! The Maybach prototypes I saw since I've been here in Germany are likely going to be the 57 and 62 successors. I truly can't say just yet if the twin-turbo V-10 or twin-turbo V-8 will turn out less horsepower, I mean a V-10 can produce as much horsepower as a V-12, and be as reliable as a V-8, at the sametime fuel efficent. But I will tell you also here and now, Maybach are planning to expend veru soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if there new plans include a 4 door coupe, and 2+2 cabriolet sportscar, as well as a front mid-engined 2 seat cabriolet.

McLaren news update! I have read on CarMagazine.co.uk that the McLaren P11 will use a Mercedes-AMG engine, that is not true Mercedes-AMG's plan is for the SLC Gullwing to be there only sportscar. The engine that McLaren are currently testing will be produced by either Illmor Engineering or Mahle/Cosworth Engineering in England. The P11's engine will produce 550+BHP, from it's 5.5 liter normally aspirated direct injection V-8, many have thought that the P12 will be merely a stripped out version of the P11, in that case it will not be, it will instead have unique styling from the P11, will be lighter then the P11, and will be more of a focused supercar, with power coming from a twin-screw supercharged higher revving version of the 5.5 liter V-8 producing close to 700 BHP, and should be able to top out roughly at 230 MPH, possibly even higher with the weight being shaved at the design phase of the car.

I have heard that a secret kabal of engineers here in Germany have been testing a supercar at the Nurbergring, the modle is said to be powered by a Mercedes-AMG engine and could very well be a AMG model in early development stages. I do recall rumors of AMG working ona successor to the C111, C112, and CLK GTR earlier in my post, and this could be a early prototype of that model as it gets engine tuning correct. I'm heading there today, so I will let you all know as soon as I return!! Till then stay tuned and continue ot share what you all hear!!!!
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  #102  
Old 10-15-2008, 08:33 AM
conan conan is offline
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McLaren, what about Mini? Do they still plan a low-roofed 2 seater coupe/speedster as rumored, or not? Thanks in advance..
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  #103  
Old 10-15-2008, 05:05 PM
63Bonneville 63Bonneville is offline
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Thank you for your fast reply and update, MCLAREN.

It appears that Maybach has a sweet bolstering and expansion on deck! The indication was already in place regarding recent article postings that Daimler has no plans to unload, sell or kill off Maybach, I'm really glad for that!

Another question - in your last posting, you stated, "Mercedes-AMG's plan is for the SLC Gullwing to be their only sportscar" - perhaps I misinterpreted it or even read it wrong, but I thought, even from a recent posting, that AMG-branded vehicles is to expand with a CLK DTM/ Black Series successor and the talked-about "Black Hammer", are the latter two goign to be exclusive AMG cars or branded as Mercedes-Benz/AMG? Also, there's the follow-up with possible developments of C111, C112, and CLK GTR successors supposedly in secret development, which you had covered - could that, if it comes to being, be AMG-exclusive?

Also, the McLaren P11/P12 looks to be very well in progress. Other news - the Aston-Martin One77 is already sold out! Way to go AM!!!

I'll look forward to your next update following your next stop.
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  #104  
Old 10-15-2008, 07:38 PM
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LamboMan LamboMan is offline
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Well one thing's for sure.....we have a lot of great design contest ideas now. We can keep speculating how all these cars will look.:)
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  #105  
Old 10-15-2008, 09:16 PM
MCLAREN P_10 MCLAREN P_10 is offline
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Okay, to clear up the confusion about AMG, I visited there facilities today and they are working very hard on several new models. HWA/AMG have plans to build a small range of AMG badged sportscars, they will be what McLaren should have been to Mercedes and will give a perfect counterpart to Maybach. The plans for the C111/C112/CLK GTR successor are in early planning as of right now and could take ona third partner in development, shall I dare say it PAGANI! The working progress with AMG-Pagani are better then ever, and why wouldn't Pagani/ Mercedes-AMG plan a sportscar that would use a different engine for this new model. Pagani was instrumental in the design and build of he Chrysler ME4-12 concept, so why wouldn't Mercedes-AMG plan to build a hypercar with them, that would infact cut cost on bnoth Pagani ad Mercedes-AMG. Pagani would build the C9, while HWA would recieve the carbon fiber monocoque chassis from Pagani in Italy and build the completely unique body panels of carbon fiber. This hypercar would be alot like Ferrari's exclusive sportscars such as the 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo, and FX150/FX70, and would be replaced in a timed fashion. The other AMG badged sportscars such as the CLK DTM successor, the SLC Gullwing, and the Black Hammer would be marketed as a unique brand all it's own!!!!

While I was at the AMG Facilities, I saw a Pagani prototype, which says that Pagani is working very closely with AMg on the devleopment of the C9. I can tell you all the new chassis is alot wider and slightly longer in the wheelbase then the Zonda, and it will be a great car. I didn't get a chance to take a peek at the engine, but they did start it up and I will have to say the exuast note will be great once it hits the streets. The car is alot lower then the Zonda production model thats what gave it away first of all. I also heard the plans to reveal the car at slated for Geneva Autoshow in March, so come March I will be in Geneva to see it upclose! Also while at the AMg facility, I heard more rumors of a smaller Pagani that would be base on a the Zonda carbon fiber monocoque and powered by the 5.5 liter supercharged V-8 producing 575 BHP, this engine is NOT the same engine that will be in the C9, it will be closer to the engine found in the CLK DTM. How much of this rumor is true, is to be seen soon, but I thought I should report it since it's news to me!!!!!
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  #106  
Old 10-15-2008, 10:27 PM
63Bonneville 63Bonneville is offline
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Beautiful finds all around, and in many genres of supercars/hypercars - lots to anticipate!!!
Nowadays there are more resources to be accessed and obtained to develop such machines, and more than ever! All and/or most these vehicles are low-volume and wouldn't have such an impact on CAFE average and even CO2 standards (though most who obtain these rides wouldn't care about MPG as it is and most of these cars aren't daily drivers) and many have smaller volume cars under their corporate umbrellas to offset any of this anyway, i.e., Mini, Smart, etc. Of course, I support any and all technology levels which enhance power, cleanliness and efficiency and maintain clean emissions.
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Last edited by 63Bonneville; 10-15-2008 at 10:33 PM.
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  #107  
Old 10-16-2008, 12:25 AM
MCLAREN P_10 MCLAREN P_10 is offline
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Well I just remmebred about the comment about Mini, the plans for a mini speedster are coming along thus far, Mini are planning to roll out a sportscar that will possibly recieve another of the Rover groups names. The plan has been on the table for sometime now, and Mini recieving a small sportscar would be a great movre if you ask me! This could also form the bases for a BMW Z1 sportscar that will feature a small displacement turbochrged 2.0 liter engine producing around 250-300 BHP.

With news of Daimler AG making plans to switch the CLK, CLS, and CL into coupe version of there platform mates, such as the CLE, CLS will move to a S-Class chassis and become a CLS truly being based ona CL-Class chassis and still being a 4 door coupe, while the CL-Class will become a S-Class 2 door coupe, but this also make room for a C-Class coupe, maybe even a baby CLS. At the same time doesn't this mean that the SLK, SL, and SLC will share one aluminum chassis with differnt wheelbases also? I mean the SLK uses the CLK chassis as it's platform, due to it being smaller then the C-Class, but with the CLK moving to the E-Class chassis does that mean the SLK will become larger or will it remain true to it's roots or use a short wheelbase version of the SL-Class chassis, which means we could see a proper V-8 sportscar from the SLK, not like the SLK that is out right now. But doesn't this also leave room for a entry-level sportscar say a SLA to bridge the gap between the A/B-Class and Smart.

On my way back to my hotel, I saw a very strange sportscar, and this car flew past me ina hurry, this car wa completely black, and had a great exuast note, it sounded alot like a V-8, but it had to be a force fee v-8 meaning possibly a twin-turbo, or a supercharged V-8. I have reason to believe that it was a Mercedes sportscar only due to the rear lights, which I tried to keep up with it and see where it was going, but couldn't! I have been hearing rumors here in Cologne tyat Mercedes does alot of testing at the Nurburgring, and I will have to see if I can get soem more news in awhile! If this is what I think it is, then I will have plenty of news for you all when I return! Need I say anymore then the AMG Black Hammer. This far was very smooth but reminded me of the SLR in ways thanks to it's long front end, and short deck lid, but there was fixed rear wing and was very blocky I would say to keep the shape under wraps till the offical test are done. I hope to maybe get a picture if possible, but I can't promise that as of right now! I will be back with what I findout everyone, so please stay tuned!!!!!
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  #108  
Old 10-16-2008, 05:00 AM
63Bonneville 63Bonneville is offline
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The Mini doesn't necessarily fall into a supercar category, for it's a smaller, boutique/fashionable car, then again, it is part of the BMW and Rolls-Royce family and there are plans for a halo speedster vehicle coming along (many of the supercars are halos) and that is a great addition to the brand, I'll look forward to that, too. Funny thing, with the original, vintage, and really mini Minis, it's been said that you got more attention in an (original) Mini than you did in a Jaguar, and they've been known to out-handle even Ferraris! It's like they've beaten out the supercars of yore, back in the day! A speedster/sportscar Mini (or whatever it's to be named) is worth a nice mention in this thread.

A couple of articles did surface today regarding Mercedes-Benz to now have a proper and more upmarket C-Class Coupe instead of, or to succeed that cut-down C-Class based hatchback sold today (the one that just basically got a facelift but perhaps that's because it may be the end of it's run), therefore the CLK looks to move up to become an E-Class coupe (CLE?) for next-generation (the Concept Fascination points that way) so then it makes sense to move the CLS to the S-Class underpinnings. It was mentioned earlier on in this thread that the S-Class is undergoing a facelift, and so is the CL-Class, which, possibly after update, will be renamed an S-Class coupe (2-door, while the CLS is 4-door). A couple of other threads within this site, particularly the Car Spy Pictures forum, the CLS and CLK threads seem to contradict or dispute whether the CLK successor will be an E-Class coupe based on a next-generation E-Class platform or remain new-generation/C-Class based and whether the next-generation CLS will still be E-Class, or S-Class based. I'm leaning more towards the credibility of the information and findings within this thread, and, MCLAREN, you're seeing projects and facilities either all, or in part to justify your postings.

Also, that was a sweet, additional unexpected find regarding what you say that flew past you. I hope you're able to track that down successfully and find out all you want, as well as share the amazing information! So far, it's appears you've come up with very sensible and logical educated guess.
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  #109  
Old 10-16-2008, 05:48 AM
MCLAREN P_10 MCLAREN P_10 is offline
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Thanks alot to everyone for staying tuned in! I just returned from the Nurburgring, and there are actually 2 cars that Mercedes are developing here that have been running laps there! The first is a 2 seat sportscar, about the size of a SLR, the car is carrying a twin-turbo V-8, and this just so happens to be the car I saw fly past me on my way back to my hotel! This leads me to believe that it is the Black Hammer in early development stages~!!!! The second model I would have to guess is a Maybach cabrilet/coupe, it was about as long as the other car, but the back window was blacked out, so I would guess that the car is the 2+2 Maybach that rumors have been swireling around as of late! The car would be based on a stretched SL-Class chassis and power would come from a twin-turbo V-10. I also noticed that the cars roof was made of 3 pieces instead of the SL-Class 2 piece roof, which says there will be more room in the cockpit for 2 rear seats. The styling was very hard to see on both models, but I will say that if what I over heard while there is true, then the Maybach will see production inthe next couple of years. I did notice alot of Maybach shirts around the car when thye stopped to refuel the car, but I can say this much if it takes cues from the Exelero, then we are in for a treat.

Also while at the Nurburgring, I heard rumors that Mika Hakkinen will be there soon to put the car through it's paces and try to get a topspeed for the prototype and acceleration numbers. I was about to leave when I saw a ALL Black Mercedes S 65 AMG pull down onto the track and who would you know steps out Mika Hakkinen in a track suit with AMG on the left chest, so of course I had to stay for a lil' while and see if I could over hear the numbers. What I did hear form the team radio is a 0-60 in 3.12 seconds in first gear, then 100 in 4.4 seconds, a quarter mile time of 10,73 seconds and the last numbers before I got to excited was a topseed of 205 MPH with the team telling him to back it off! If Mika Hakkinen is testing the car then I would have to say that it will be great. Next up he started testing the Maybach test car, and he started out slow, but quickly picked up the pace!

The car sounds great and I must say the car will be a welcome edition to the Maybach line up, expecially since no other luxury car maker such as Rolls-Royce, Benltley or Bugatti as planning to tap into this market for a lil' while. I have to say that I pray that it will price around $250,000 for the base model and onto $300,000 for the S Model, which will be a great market to be the first in all together, this way you set the standard for other companies. Maybach are expanding there portfolio, but unlike rumors suggest,. they are planning only cars, no SUV. The SUV idea was in play at first only to make a profit quickly, but with the new greener way of think SUV's wouldn' make a great investment in the long run. The numbers I heard about this model is 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 100 in 5.05, a quater mile in 10.34 seconds and a limited topseed of of 218 MPH, which will probably be limited to just 218 because the cars aerodynamics were still beign tested.

Thats all for now, but I will be visiting the factory later today, so I will be asking them questions about these models and I will be reporting on what I overhear and findout!!!! So stay tuned in for more as I recieve it!!!!!!
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  #110  
Old 10-16-2008, 10:32 PM
MCLAREN P_10 MCLAREN P_10 is offline
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I am heading to England before I leave Europe, so maybe I can get the heads up on the new McLaren Projects for everyone, I should be there by tomorrow morning, so I will let everyone know what I find out about McLaren, Aston Martin/Lagonda, Jaguar/Land Rover/ Lotus, TVR, MG Rover Group, BMW/Mini, Morgan ,Bristol, Ascari, amoungst others such as Bentley, Rolls-Royce.

I will be asking questions about Lagonda while I'm there tos ee if they are possibly running a development model in England and if so where to bring you all news. The Rolls-Royce sportscar, I have to ask about and the Salt Flat racer to find out where thye are headed with that program. Of course I want to knwo which direction TVR is headed in now. I want to findout more about Bentley and Bugatti's platform sharing programm, so I'll be heading to Crewe while I'm there, and last but not least I have to try to findout more about the sportscar programm at McLaren and see just how much development is going into these new models. I also hope to catch a glimpse of a prototype of the SLR Speedster, and the P11/P12!

Stay tuned for the updates as I can get them to everyone, I hope o have some news very soon, becuase it's night here and I'm already headed for England, so hopefully by night fall tomorrow I will have some news for everyone on some if not all these projects!!!
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