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  #21  
Old 06-09-2016, 02:48 PM
Swallow Doretti Swallow Doretti is offline
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Chevy Spark 35K
Mitsubishi Mirage 25K
Nissan Versa 153K
Hyundai Accent 80K
The Spark and Mirage are a completely different class than the Versa and Accent. The FIAT 500 is in this class, however.

The only reason Chevy sells the Spark here is because it was pushed on them by the Obama administration as a part of the bailout. Most Sparks end up in rental fleets--very few go into the hands of customers.

The 500 is FIAT's flagship car, same as the Golf is to VW, which means they'll sell it even if nobody buys it (it was also, like the Spark, a condition of the bailout).

As for Mitsubishi, well, they're not even relevant.

25,000 sales for Ford on a car with no margins isn't even worth bothering. Assume, incredibly generously, 70% of those cars end up in retail customers' hands. That translates into 18,500 cars per year, or 15 cars sold per dealer per year. That further breaks down to about a single Ka that would be sold per dealer, per month. Now imagine the costs involved in training every dealer on how to sell and service a vehicle that the store will only sell about 15 per year, but will take up the same amount of room on the lot as high-profit, fast-turning Edge or F-150, the latter which takes about 12 hours to turn versus 30 days.

And that's why the Ka isn't coming to the US.
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  #22  
Old 06-09-2016, 02:49 PM
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pjl35 pjl35 is offline
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Intelligent answer: The bottom-feeder segment has good sales. Granted they are not Civic/Corolla level, but this is the price segment that the Chinese will likely put a vehicle into, so getting there now and developing the market for the established brands makes a lot of sense.


Chevy Spark 35K
Mitsubishi Mirage 25K
Nissan Versa 153K
Hyundai Accent 80K

The Spark and Mirage are hampered by not having sedan equivalents, but that has changed for Mitsubishi. The Spark is getting a sedan version and a softroader version of the hatchback.

The Mirage is helping keep Mitsubishi afloat in the USA. The last Spark was a great product and the new one is much improved. When the Mustang is paid off, I may very well buy a Spark Activ for my daughter.
There's a sedan version of the Spark coming?

I'd also categorize the Versa and Accent as a class above the Mirage and Spark. Sizewize, they both are in more direct competition with the Sonic, Fiesta, etc.
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  #23  
Old 06-09-2016, 03:01 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
The Spark and Mirage are a completely different class than the Versa and Accent. The FIAT 500 is in this class, however.

The only reason Chevy sells the Spark here is because it was pushed on them by the Obama administration as a part of the bailout. Most Sparks end up in rental fleets--very few go into the hands of customers.

The 500 is FIAT's flagship car, same as the Golf is to VW, which means they'll sell it even if nobody buys it (it was also, like the Spark, a condition of the bailout).

As for Mitsubishi, well, they're not even relevant.

25,000 sales for Ford on a car with no margins isn't even worth bothering. Assume, incredibly generously, 70% of those cars end up in retail customers' hands. That translates into 18,500 cars per year, or 15 cars sold per dealer per year. That further breaks down to about a single Ka that would be sold per dealer, per month. Now imagine the costs involved in training every dealer on how to sell and service a vehicle that the store will only sell about 15 per year, but will take up the same amount of room on the lot as high-profit, fast-turning Edge or F-150, the latter which takes about 12 hours to turn versus 30 days.

And that's why the Ka isn't coming to the US.
The Spark was part of GM's plan well before Obama took office. It came out during his term - and for what it is, isn't a bad car actually. However to say he forced it is nonsense. Same thing w/ the Volt.

Yes, they WOULD help w/ CAFE standards - but that was the extent of the forcing.
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  #24  
Old 06-09-2016, 05:01 PM
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There's a sedan version of the Spark coming?

I'd also categorize the Versa and Accent as a class above the Mirage and Spark. Sizewize, they both are in more direct competition with the Sonic, Fiesta, etc.
It's being considered for sale here, yes.

The American market tends to be grouped more by price than size and the Versa and Accent definitely fall into the $13-15K sweet spot
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2016, 07:43 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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The American market tends to be grouped more by price than size and the Versa and Accent definitely fall into the $13-15K sweet spot
Which makes the Ka+ an even more difficult business proposition - it needs to be priced at Mirage levels, because a Hyundai Accent will walk over it. These "3rd world hatchbacks" are never up to even smaller properly engineered small cars like an Accent, a Chevy, Fiesta or even an old but charming Fiat 500...
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2016, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pjl35 View Post
There's a sedan version of the Spark coming?

I'd also categorize the Versa and Accent as a class above the Mirage and Spark. Sizewize, they both are in more direct competition with the Sonic, Fiesta, etc.
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Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
Which makes the Ka+ an even more difficult business proposition - it needs to be priced at Mirage levels, because a Hyundai Accent will walk over it. These "3rd world hatchbacks" are never up to even smaller properly engineered small cars like an Accent, a Chevy, Fiesta or even an old but charming Fiat 500...
The Mirage and the Accent overlap significantly in price and I agree the Accent is a real car whereas the Mirage is lesser conveyance, but the $9999 Mirages are advertised with asterisks naming all the hoops buyers cannot leap through in the first place.

If Ford could bring it here with air conditioning for $11K reasonably equipped and an automatic for $12K they'd have a hit. They could call it the Escort. Ka would definitely not be the right name.
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2016, 08:21 PM
cowboysnkisses cowboysnkisses is offline
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
They could call it the Escort. Ka would definitely not be the right name.
..yeah can you imagine the trouble in Massachussets? "no but really, what model do you have?" "I told you, it's a ka..."
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  #28  
Old 06-11-2016, 01:38 AM
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..yeah can you imagine the trouble in Massachussets? "no but really, what model do you have?" "I told you, it's a ka..."
Or two parked together: "Oh look Ka Ka!" ($h!t in Spanish)
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2018, 01:57 PM
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CosworthKid CosworthKid is offline
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https://www.netcarshow.com/ford/2019-ka_plus_active/





I actually like this version. Kinda suits it a bit more and looks a little like a smaller Dacia Sandero. This could actually sell in decent enough numbers in some parts of the world, including here in Australia if reliability and quality are good.
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Last edited by CosworthKid; 02-05-2018 at 02:00 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-05-2018, 03:16 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Originally Posted by CosworthKid View Post
https://www.netcarshow.com/ford/2019-ka_plus_active/





I actually like this version. Kinda suits it a bit more and looks a little like a smaller Dacia Sandero. This could actually sell in decent enough numbers in some parts of the world, including here in Australia if reliability and quality are good.
https://www.carscoops.com/2018/02/fo...und-clearance/

Not only is this a "Active" version, it also brings along a facelift for the regular Ka+ incl. a new interior with tablet like Sync 3;

https://www.netcarshow.com/ford/2019-ka_plus/




Altogether welcome changes, and the Active version just adds that bit of "interesting" that the regular Ka+ was missing so desperately;
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