CarSpyShots
Quick Member Login:
Forgot password?
Forum Statistics:
Forum Members:
Total Threads:
Total Posts:


There are users
currently browsing forums.
  FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07-13-2018, 07:36 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
CSS Oldtimer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 8,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
I'd do:

Cayenne = Porsche "X7"...big, stylish, and fast
Cajun = Cayenne coupe
If there was a considerable size or shape difference, I'd agree; But, compare the roof lines, one is a fastback, the other a near fastback shooting break style; Length , wheelbase and height are identical, so rear headroom and regular boot is probably close to identical, loading roof up will surely give you a little extra space in the regular Cayenne, but question: How often will any Cayenne driver drive loaded brim full? That's not a SUV that puts any emphasis on the "utility" part.

Sure, Porsche could make a huge 7 seat behemoth (and probably they will, given the German obsession with catering every imaginable - and unimaginable - niche) that would indeed give enough separation to the Cayenne coupe in terms of utility, but I just don't think every brand needs to offer every car, as it really washes away brand identity. Same goes for the first Cayenne that could go off road - at least the first 3 years of ownership or so before all that wizardry in the drive-train and suspension starts to break - something no one used but compromised the car ultimately;

As pointed out by others, the Volkswagen group offers enough large SUVs in various price ranges and degrees of fast, and differences are already miniscule, this is why I welcome a slightly more different Cayenne with a proper Porsche roof line, that also seems to be hardly any less practical; That is what a Porsche SUV should be.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-13-2018, 01:14 PM
swizzle's Avatar
swizzle swizzle is offline
Raconteur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 25,443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
...as it really washes away brand identity...
The Cayenne washed away Porsche's brand identity years ago and began the slippery slope. So with two crossoverSUVthings, diesels, and a 4-door, there really would be no impediment to a Porsche X7 and if it would sell and make a good profit, that would be the reason to do it. Porsche's brand identity is all about the emblem and the Super Beetle headlights these days.

The Cayenne was envisioned as a cash cow and initially it outsold the rest of Porsche's offerings combined.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-13-2018, 03:53 PM
Nastka's Avatar
Nastka Nastka is offline
CSS Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,031
Default

I think you guys are forgetting one thing: If it weren't for the Cayenne, there would be no Porsche. This car is what saved the brand.

Look at it very carefully and give thanks for plump cash cow, for if it weren't for its inception, we wouldn't have some of the most delicious sports and supercars on earth, and one of the historically most important sportscar makers would have gone the way of the dodo:


Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:46 PM
Levi Levi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastka View Post
I think you guys are forgetting one thing: If it weren't for the Cayenne, there would be no Porsche. This car is what saved the brand.

Look at it very carefully and give thanks for plump cash cow, for if it weren't for its inception, we wouldn't have some of the most delicious sports and supercars on earth, and one of the historically most important sportscar makers would have gone the way of the dodo:
That is factually not true. The Cayenne did bring money, but it did not "save" Porsche. Porsche was not dying, Porsche was already saved by Toyota, and Porsche was about to buy VW.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:52 PM
swizzle's Avatar
swizzle swizzle is offline
Raconteur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 25,443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
That is factually not true. The Cayenne did bring money, but it did not "save" Porsche. Porsche was not dying, Porsche was already saved by Toyota, and Porsche was about to buy VW.
1. Porsche WAS dying and dying FAST.
2. Toyota did not save Porsche in any way, shape, or form.
3. The ill-fated attempt of Porsche trying to buy VW was after the Cayenne cash cow reversed their fortunes.
4. The 911 and Boxster of that era were designed under an austerity mentality where they had to share as many components as possible.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:12 PM
Levi Levi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
1. Porsche WAS dying and dying FAST.
2. Toyota did not save Porsche in any way, shape, or form.
3. The ill-fated attempt of Porsche trying to buy VW was after the Cayenne cash cow reversed their fortunes.
4. The 911 and Boxster of that era were designed under an austerity mentality where they had to share as many components as possible.
True, Porsche would avoid mentioning that they were saved by Japanese managers from Toyota, that is why you do not know about it.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:20 PM
Nastka's Avatar
Nastka Nastka is offline
CSS Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
True, Porsche would avoid mentioning that they were saved by Japanese managers from Toyota, that is why you do not know about it.
Any articles backing that up mate?

Also, Porsche being in a position to purchase VW (which bit them in the arse later) was dubious at best:

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...what-happened/
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-14-2018, 01:11 PM
Levi Levi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastka View Post
Any articles backing that up mate?

Also, Porsche being in a position to purchase VW (which bit them in the arse later) was dubious at best:

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...what-happened/

Many claim the Cayenne saved Porsche and made them profitable, but that is wrong , it was the Boxster (986).

Anyway, businesses are "conspiracies", it is a natural thing, so of course details are scarce.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...f-the-boxster/

https://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2...as-star-pupil/

I have some original sources including an interview too.


Following, that Porsche opened a subsidiary called Porsche Consulting. They advised for VW, Lufthansa, and many other companies in various industries. Porsche is behind most of the achievements in the German industry, together with Daimler. Stuttgart is the automotive German industrial cluster.

And yes, what Toyota did bit them back.

Last edited by Levi; 07-14-2018 at 01:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:00 PM
swizzle's Avatar
swizzle swizzle is offline
Raconteur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 25,443
Default

"Between 1996 and 2003, the Boxster was Porsche's best-selling model until the Cayenne came along."

And it was the Cayenne that radically improved Porsche's profitability.

Moreover, turning to former Toyota employees to JIT production is NOT the same as Toyota saving Porsche.

During that era EVERYONE was looking at JIT.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:49 PM
Levi Levi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
"Between 1996 and 2003, the Boxster was Porsche's best-selling model until the Cayenne came along."

And it was the Cayenne that radically improved Porsche's profitability.

Moreover, turning to former Toyota employees to JIT production is NOT the same as Toyota saving Porsche.

During that era EVERYONE was looking at JIT.
Profitability became Porsche's strength with the 986 and 996. The Cayenne improved revenue (through increased output) while maintaining that profitability.

JIT did not work out with Fiat, Chrysler, Ford and GM and Nissan, the French and the British. This begs some questions.

Then Porsche is separated in (in context) two companies. VAG is owned by Porsche SE (capital). Porsche AG (products) is owned by VAG.

Porsche AG < VAG < Porsche SE

This was a deal. More details can be found on the web. Car websites are not good places to be informed about such things. You have to search on business websites (Autobild < Handelsblatt).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:44 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Black Falcon Media Group Oy