[Nicktyelor]

Gorgeous proportions. Shaping up very nicely both up front and out back.

I do worry they'll take the concept grille too literally. I found the GV80 grotesque, but maybe they'll figure out their detailing here....

[mick78]

Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover

UPS?

Marketing term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique...ng_proposition

Not quite. I very clearly remember the introduction of the original LS and the stir that it caused bc of the pricing (being a teen at the time will that for you). The original LS400, IIRC, had an MSRP of ~$35000-37000. The 300E had a base price of $47000; the 190E was ~$34000.

MB has historically given huge discounts off of MSRP (you could easily knock of $10000 off the MSRP for a 300E; the 190E could be had for under $30000 w/ a lot of haggling); I don't recall that being the case w/ the LS, so the actual transaction price were probably closer. Still, on paper, it looked like you were getting something close to an Mercedes SE (I think MB SELs were significantly longer) for only a little more than a COMPACT Mercedes.

The LS was also arguably better equipped (did any manufacturer pay the same level of attention to factory sound systems back then?) and more powerful than the 560. It was certainly more quiet.

Of course, one presumes that Toyota (and the Japanese government???) was heavily subsidizing the cost of the LS b/c MB tried to cut its prices and ended up simply cutting quality. And the rapidly escalating of the LS since then would also imply that Toyota couldn't really make much of a profit off of the original price (IMHO).

Yes, pricing did make an impact (however, Japanese had tried before selling large cars mostly based on equipment and price - e.g. Toyota Cressida, but those factors alone were not enough to make an impact or be remembered), but what really made an impact was that it was cheaper despite being as good in all measurable terms (not image), and better in terms of refinement;

Read into the Lexus development story, and pricing was never their main target - it was beating Mercedes at their own game, plus Japanese reliability. Pricing was chosen to make an impact there as well, but it was never the main goal, and nowadays a Lexus doesn't need to be cheaper necessarily (and you won't get German discounts, that#s for sure, on list price)

[paranoidgarliclover]

Originally Posted by mick78

Read into the Lexus development story, and pricing was never their main target - it was beating Mercedes at their own game, plus Japanese reliability. Pricing was chosen to make an impact there as well, but it was never the main goal, and nowadays a Lexus doesn't need to be cheaper necessarily (and you won't get German discounts, that#s for sure, on list price)

It's kind of a shame that the LS has sort of fallen into obscurity a bit now (I certainly see more S-Class and 7-Series than LSs), but the sales of the RX and ES presumably more than make up for it.

I do think that the Genesis line could make a name for itself by offering a near-German driving experience w/ a softer and quieter ride + long-term maintenance costs.

[swizzle]

The S Class remains the king for sales, but the LS comes in a healthy second and is beating the pants off the 7 Series--#3--by 20%. #4 Is the Genesis G90 and way way way behind that is the A8.

[IcedG35]

Originally Posted by swizzle

The S Class remains the king for sales, but the LS comes in a healthy second and is beating the pants off the 7 Series--#3--by 20%. #4 Is the Genesis G90 and way way way behind that is the A8.

where are you getting this? Lexus sold half as many LS's as 7 series in 2017 and Genesis beat them per the below. those rankings have been relatively consistent although the LS pulled back ahead of the Genesis in early 2018

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...united-states/

[swizzle]

2018 YTD

9650 Mercedes S Class
6003 Lexus LS
5021 BMW 7 Series

[Naga Royal Guard]

was the LS in full distribution all year? I think it outsold the old and aged but very capable S class last month

no matter, a new model Lexus sedan is good for 2-3 years and sales fall down the tubes for the remaining 3-4

[paranoidgarliclover]

Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard

no matter, a new model Lexus sedan is good for 2-3 years and sales fall down the tubes for the remaining 3-4

I think you're being generous w/ the LS. I've only 1 car in my area since the new one was released (S-Classes and 7-Series are pretty common here), and even the old car was relatively rare. I think moving toward more avant garde stying will not help long-term sales....

[mick78]

Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard

no matter, a new model Lexus sedan is good for 2-3 years and sales fall down the tubes for the remaining 3-4

I think that is triue for most premium sedans, and will be even more true with nowadays more and more tech gadgets defining premium, as tech ages quickly. In Europe, usually the newest German sedan is automatically the best seller until a newer one arrives as well.

[Naga Royal Guard]

Originally Posted by mick78

I think that is triue for most premium sedans, and will be even more true with nowadays more and more tech gadgets defining premium, as tech ages quickly. In Europe, usually the newest German sedan is automatically the best seller until a newer one arrives as well.

The effect seems sharpest with Lexus, for example 3 series and E class holds steady into redesign, from my observations. RX seems to hold steady into it's redesigns, however.