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  #11  
Old 04-03-2016, 06:25 PM
TdeV TdeV is offline
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No thanks, I'd gladly take a Renault though.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2016, 07:43 PM
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So how many cars does 'DS' have now? DS3 which not sure how the US would take to it, a DS4 hatch again not sure how a premium hatch would do in the states. Then there is the DS 6WR, which I have no idea existed, this would have a better chance in the US, say against the GLA. Finally the DS5, which personally is a favourite of mine. though again unsure how the US would take to it.

I wouldn't mind seeing Peugeot in Canada, especially the hatches, 308 and 208. Perhaps the Quartz concept from 2014 is the new SUV that could be introduced to the US in the future but again not sure how large it is.

But I would rather see Renault than PSA like TdeV. Wouldn't be a bad idea perhaps of creating dealerships joined with Nissan.

While I agree the Euro engines mind not be the best for the US market, perhaps investing in hybrid tech could be an idea for the french?
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2016, 11:49 PM
62Lincoln 62Lincoln is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
And how has that gone so far?
Exactly. I guess I should have added a sarcasm warning to make my point more explicit.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2016, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascariss View Post
So how many cars does 'DS' have now?...
Makes no difference. "DS" means nothing to Americans. Peugeot is not well known...Citroen even less so...DS not a bit.

Aside from a handful of aging hipster crazies, few remember the Citroen DS and even fewer remember it fondly.

If Citroen or Peugeot were sorely missed brands long absent from this market, then I'd say go with either of those brand names rather than DS that one no one knows.

I honestly believe Geely and SAIC/Nanjing/MG have a better shot at setting up shop in this market.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2016, 08:05 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Makes no difference. "DS" means nothing to Americans. Peugeot is not well known...Citroen even less so...DS not a bit.

Aside from a handful of aging hipster crazies, few remember the Citroen DS and even fewer remember it fondly.

If Citroen or Peugeot were sorely missed brands long absent from this market, then I'd say go with either of those brand names rather than DS that one no one knows.

I honestly believe Geely and SAIC/Nanjing/MG have a better shot at setting up shop in this market.
I agree that the brand "DS" means nothing to the Americans, actually, it doesn't mean much to Europeans as well, as it is rather new as brand here, citroen just created them pretty much form a model line like Hyundai did with Genesis.

Where I don't agree is that those who remember the original Citroen DS, don't remember it fondly. It is so long time ago, that nowadays people only think futurism, avantgarde if they are car people, whilst non car people probably don't remember much that has been of the lease offers for more than 5 years. Like most people nowadays are rather glad seeing a Tucker Torpedo or Chevy Corvair, or even an Edsel (and unlike those, the DS - despite complicated mechanics not as such resulting in not exactly always stellar reliability - was a massive hit and sales success)

Whilst I agree that entering the US market with a unfamiliar European brand might be a massive adventure with a good chance of failure, and will require better timing of release/sales start of products than Alfa has, I fail to see why some nondescript average Chinese car company (checking their respective web pages, I don't see the "US needs this instantly" lineup either...) should be so much easier or more successful. They might come one day, but, so far experience has proven in every other place the Chinese started selling cars, their success has never been comparable to Korean or let alone Japanese cars, given questionable products at anything but ambitious prices.
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2016, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
...Where I don't agree is that those who remember the original Citroen DS, don't remember it fondly...
Europe is entirely different than the USA and there some people for whatever unknown reason love Citroen and their often ugly creations.

I was speaking specifically about the US market where those who remember the DS and Citroen remember them as hideous (SM included) and of shockingly bad quality/reliability. People half my age with the money that a DS would cost would buy Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Audi, or BMW products first.

DS needs to stay home.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2016, 02:39 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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I agree that a DS at established premium money would never work. If they bring their Chinese made lineup at decent prices, as I say, I see no reason why it should succeed less than any other made up Chinese brand. That said, I think entering the market for whatever brand will be a hell of a job.

however looking at US car websites and publications I don't have the impression the whole US thinks classic CItroens (and those include the DS and SM) are only ugly and horrible. Also in Europe only the "quirky", but mostly the futuristic and different Citroen (most of which are classic cars today) are loved, with the mainstay of the cars made today and in the last 30 years regarded as "also available"....
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2016, 04:05 PM
boston boston is offline
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I don't see anything here that would interest any Americans at all.

Certain regions of Canada are probably well suited, but elsewhere (cue gallic shrug) rien.

https://media-dspp-driveds.driveds.c...ication-v2.pdf
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2016, 12:08 AM
drugmirko drugmirko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Typical Eurocentric, apologist response. The acid test for PSA is whether they can get to Toyota/Honda/Hyundai-Kia levels of quality, reliability, and durability. The answer to that is no. PSA's only hope of survival is China and possibly suckers who will buy their product in the USA because in Europe they are a part of the production excess along with Renault, Fiat, and Opel. They aren't winning the game.
o, please swizzle, sorry for the expression but, don't be so "full of it"! honestly, what was your closest contact with any PSA product (except "over the computer monitor over the internet)? have you ever seen one of their cars live... or even drove one? cause you sure didn't own one! but despite that you know they are crap!

unlike you, I own and drive one every day constantly from 1988! and my family owns them constantly from 1976... and guess what, there was NO serious problem with NONE of them in 40 years! even though there were hydraulic ones between them that had/have notorious reputation (in fact, hydraulics was the least problematic of all!)..
in the mean time, we (my wife) had three A4 1.9l/2.0l TDI (B6, B8 and now B8 FL All-road)... we had gazillion problems... from broken cylinder heads (PD diesel), turbine failure, fly wheel change, fuel pump failure, MMI died, etc. between them there was one Ford (2.0l tdci), that had PSA's diesel but Ford ECU&engine computer... there was endlessly repeating "engine failure, immediate stop" notification and searching for Ford service to reset the computer! while on my currently 9 yrs old Citroen C2: replaced one front light bulb and break lights switch on braking pedal! but I admit, C2 is second car of the family and I do only around 10-11k km a year with it!

that is my "long term, first hand" experience with PSA/Citroen and "more renowned" brands... I haven't owned Hyundai, Kia or Toyota. but I did drove some of them several times and all I can say about them is that Koreans had far worst ergonomy and utterly anemic engines, while Toyota's felt better built but "drop dead boring"...
and even if you go and browse for car reliability indexes - I ruled out French and German, cause it is obvious whos models will "shine" in them... and took those from UK, because their car industry died a while ago and are least biased (even though wast majority of UK population shares your opinion about French cars ) - PSA is not where you would expect, but more or less where I claim it is:

best car manufacturers 2015:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-ca...facturers-2015

reliability index 2015:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

best dealer&service 2015:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...r-dealers-2015

so, there you have it... all I'm saying all the time is that PSA models are as big&mediocre crap as the next main stream crap (VW, Ford, Opel, Kia, Hyundai... etc., pick random), cause these days the differences between them are marginal! and that so called "premium" is not so "premiumly untouchable" any more!
and unless you have real, first hand experience with at least one PSA product that lasted longer than few hundred miles with fairly ruined Rent-a-car model please take that "Typical Eurocentric, apologist response" attitude and stick it somewhere" ;)

Last edited by drugmirko; 04-05-2016 at 12:39 AM.
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2016, 12:22 AM
drugmirko drugmirko is offline
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currently DS have no models that would interest US buyers! not even amongst Chinese ones.... personally I think DS 3 might be of some interest, like Mini is (if any), others like DS 5 and DS 4 just as "eccentric oddity", but that is far too little to build a sales and service network!
but the fact that DS as a brand means nothing to US buyers could on the other hand be advantage... if/when they'll have models that could be interesting for US market (large sedan, SUV...) a fresh brand with no "bad reputation", but with decent and competitive product for a fair price, might be better than something that is commonly known as "those who left US market decades ago" or "those who tried once but didn't succeed"

Last edited by drugmirko; 04-05-2016 at 12:36 AM.
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