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  #51  
Old 02-21-2017, 06:24 AM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boston View Post
Trusting Consumer Reports for objective accurate reporting is going to gain as much traction as CNN in the White House
Okay, then here is the initial quality survey by J.D. Power:
http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study...y-Make/1222ENG

Honda and Acura appear to have middling results.

I'm not include the J.D. Power Dependability study b/c that tracks companies over 3 yrs (which means that the TLX and Civic probably wouldn't feature heavily in the results).

Or perhaps you'd like to look at the True Delta results (which show the large drop-off in reliability from the last-gen to current-gen Civic).

Do you have a better sources? While you can argue w/ their methodology, I doubt there are better sources of large datasets than these 3. Of course, if you aren't going to allow yourself to be swayed by the rather overwhelming evidence, then that's a diff story entirely.... ;) You can do the HW yourself. ::shrug:: :)

Last edited by paranoidgarliclover; 02-21-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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  #52  
Old 02-21-2017, 09:10 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
Related: PSA looks to buy Proton, may sell off Lotus to Geely:

http://www.thestar.com.my/business/b...tus-for-geely/
The only asset in Proton would be Lotus, both engineering know how and the name itself (plus , with Opel, they could make a legitimate replacement for the legendary Lotus Omega). But just Proton? Unless the Malaysian market is that restricted that otherwise they have no access, I fail to see the point in that. There has never been a single Proton sold on anything but price....

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
PSA buying any other car maker is a perplexing move if not a foolish one. PSA teetered on the brink of absolute financial ruin due to over capacity and now it wants Opel and Proton which would give it overcapacity. Geely buying Opel and Proton would make more sense for both companies.
Actually PSA seems to have money now, and they have - after some troublesome time, actually produced profits. Buying brands to enter new markets would make sense to get rid of over capacity, but Opel is already 0 new markets for them, and buying what is basically a Malaysian national brand that doesn't sell significantly elsewhere and is mostly making below average budget cars is even harder to understand.

Actually many would have expected for some bigger Chinese company o buy some troubled brand, but so far (Volvo aside) , they seem keener on installing their own brands or inventing some (Qoros - do they still exist? - or Lynk or whatever Geely calls their sub Volvo brand). It would indeed make more sense to sell them with some better known badge on their hood, but it doesn't seem to happen....
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  #53  
Old 02-21-2017, 05:31 PM
Tomm14 Tomm14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
PSA buying any other car maker is a perplexing move if not a foolish one. PSA teetered on the brink of absolute financial ruin due to over capacity and now it wants Opel and Proton which would give it overcapacity. Geely buying Opel and Proton would make more sense for both companies.

I'm sure Carlos Tavarès knows what he does and wants ;)
He also knows PSA's budget and if he can afford the different operations... :)
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  #54  
Old 02-21-2017, 07:18 PM
Swallow Doretti Swallow Doretti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
Actually PSA seems to have money now, and they have - after some troublesome time, actually produced profits. Buying brands to enter new markets would make sense to get rid of over capacity, but Opel is already 0 new markets for them, and buying what is basically a Malaysian national brand that doesn't sell significantly elsewhere and is mostly making below average budget cars is even harder to understand.
It seems PSA is mostly interested in Proton for its manufacturing facilities, which can be used to facilitate deliveries elsewhere in southeast Asia under the ASEAN agreement. More importantly, Malaysia is a part of TPP, which is expected to move forward without the US under China's leadership. That means PSA would then also have access to Canada and Mexico in North America without tariffs, and without a manufacturing base on the continent. Which makes a LOT of sense.
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  #55  
Old 02-22-2017, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm14 View Post
I'm sure Carlos Tavarès knows what he does and wants ;)
He also knows PSA's budget and if he can afford the different operations... :)
Just because PSA Has money does not mean that spending it on a boondoggle is wise.
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  #56  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:42 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swallow Doretti View Post
It seems PSA is mostly interested in Proton for its manufacturing facilities, which can be used to facilitate deliveries elsewhere in southeast Asia under the ASEAN agreement. More importantly, Malaysia is a part of TPP, which is expected to move forward without the US under China's leadership. That means PSA would then also have access to Canada and Mexico in North America without tariffs, and without a manufacturing base on the continent. Which makes a LOT of sense.
If access to the ASEAN market is what they are after, I honestly don't know why they didn't go after Mitsubishi. There had been ties for at least 10 years, and even if Mitsubishi is far from it's hey day, it' is still a different league than Proton. Furthermore, it would have given them access to the Outlander PHEV, where PSA deosn't have any Hybrid currently (their Diesel based AWD Hybrid4 never managed to sell, mostly because it wasn't really refined)

Probably PSA was too slow, with Renault/Nissan already hitting on the three diamonds, and now PSA has to go shopping for left overs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Just because PSA Has money does not mean that spending it on a boondoggle is wise.
I have to agree, not only cash wise, but also in terms of integrating companies. If they buy Opel, that is already one huge bite to swallow, integration wise. but at the same time Proton too? Reminds me of Daimler Chrysler's attempt with Mitsubishi (now that worked out excellent for all companies involved). Also, one can be sure that whatever financial sums are now estimated for the whole operation, reality will clearly be way more expensive....
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  #57  
Old 02-23-2017, 02:45 AM
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Widely being reported that the PSA deal for Opel is done and to be announced shortly.
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  #58  
Old 02-23-2017, 05:19 AM
Tomm14 Tomm14 is offline
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Latest rumours talk about the beginning of march, so shortly before the opening of the Geneva Motorshow ;)

Also today wednesday is the day PSA should present the results of the group to the medias...so why not Something also today :)
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  #59  
Old 02-24-2017, 04:12 PM
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Cousteau Cousteau is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm14 View Post
Also today wednesday is the day PSA should present the results of the group to the medias...
Actually it was Thursday 23rd of February. And Peugeot made best result ever, record operating margin of 6% and 2,7billion euros (2.8billion US dollars) free cash flow.

They can pay Opel with cash they got, and Proton too.
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  #60  
Old 02-24-2017, 06:37 PM
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pjl35 pjl35 is offline
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Meanwhile, PSA is slowly stepping back into the U.S. market:

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/02/psa...with-ride.html
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