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  #11  
Old 11-08-2018, 09:35 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by Crash View Post
No, I deal in facts.
Tesla was actually one of the bottom 3 car brands in Consumer Reports latest survey. No, CR data isn't perfect, but it's sort of the "best" systematic data we have.

As for Tesla owners being more vocal.... That's what Mercedes used to say back in the late 1990s/early aughts that caused them to topple from the top of the JD Power lists. Having had several MBs in the family from the 1980s up to the current gen, I can tell you that MB cars from the late 90s and early aughts were, in fact, sh*t.
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:13 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
Tesla was actually one of the bottom 3 car brands in Consumer Reports latest survey. No, CR data isn't perfect, but it's sort of the "best" systematic data we have.

As for Tesla owners being more vocal.... That's what Mercedes used to say back in the late 1990s/early aughts that caused them to topple from the top of the JD Power lists. Having had several MBs in the family from the 1980s up to the current gen, I can tell you that MB cars from the late 90s and early aughts were, in fact, sh*t.
I've have the 2018 CR - and it shows earlier model years (ie mine) as being concerning - but I don't see any of that. All subsequent to 2015 Model S model year QC issues in the 2018 guide (in Canada they show historic model years) were addressed. It also complained about Model X having 'slow' falcon doors; this has been resolved subsequently via over the air SW update.

Yes, the early build Model 3's had issues - but they were resolved. Every report (even an updated CR report) shows zero issues with the Model 3 now. CR also had an issue with braking distance in this product; it was resolved w/ a over the air SW update - and they'd subsequently put it on the recommend list.

As for vocal; in the early 1990's Mercedes didn't have Twitter or Facebook (or whatever your social media platform happens to be) to amplify vocal consumers. However, more importantly, the internet wasn't there to amplify short sellers who profit from a stock going down. Can you imagine the volume of noise if Tesla had to deal w/ an early 80's Audi unintended acceleration problem?

Last edited by Crash; 11-08-2018 at 10:16 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:45 PM
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Naga Royal Guard Naga Royal Guard is offline
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Accord is a turd, because, look at it. No way I'd be caught driving that if I were looking for that type of car; it'd be Optima, Mazda, Fusion then everything else.
It isnt selling like a turd (so long as car and driver is out and about), and while the front looks like an 80s PC peripheral connection, the side and rear are quite fine. And its a great driving car with good manual transmissions.


Sonata customers are very loyal, I know people who have rented them and then bought one for themselves. There's something deeply chintzy about the latest facelift that just does not appeal to their likely conservative buying base.

And then theres the camry, because its the camry that no "car guy" can ever admit to understanding because its not an E39 M5. Toyota clearly knows how to read demographic studies with their $1million/hr R&D expenditure.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:59 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard View Post
It isnt selling like a turd (so long as car and driver is out and about), and while the front looks like an 80s PC peripheral connection, the side and rear are quite fine. And its a great driving car with good manual transmissions.


Sonata customers are very loyal, I know people who have rented them and then bought one for themselves. There's something deeply chintzy about the latest facelift that just does not appeal to their likely conservative buying base.

And then theres the camry, because its the camry that no "car guy" can ever admit to understanding because its not an E39 M5. Toyota clearly knows how to read demographic studies with their $1million/hr R&D expenditure.
I love the Accord analogy - genuinely made me laugh out loud! I agree that the sides / rear / drive of the accord (although I've not driven one - the reviews are all exceptionally strong). It's the face that completely marginalizes an otherwise very nice design. The grim reality is that it's sales (with a brand new car) are down 20% vs. pre-new car.

I also agree w/ you about Hyundai. Ironically - my aunt is one of those people who rented one, fell in love and bought one (current gen as well). My point was more that the previous gen was a much more eye catching design (although I prefer the interior of the new one).
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:34 AM
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Naga Royal Guard Naga Royal Guard is offline
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The previous sonata (fluidic sculpture 1.0? ) was an impressive car, many took pause and it didn't really a facelift. It's sister optima was equally well executed and daring to boot (it just paid with a worse interior). I almost feel like that its the bang-ON unicorn design that Kia cant recover from with the current gen Optima and less accessible Stinger.

Its a perpetual close quarters knife fight between Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata/Optima. They weren't even aiming directly at the casualties: Malibu, Fusion, 200, Avenger, Aura, Taurus, Impala, Galant, Passat.
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:15 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Hyundai has no Toyota Land Cruiser, no Ford Ranger and no BMW X4 rival. Huge mistakes.
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2018, 09:39 PM
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swizzle swizzle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Hyundai has no Toyota Land Cruiser, no Ford Ranger and no BMW X4 rival. Huge mistakes.
Just like a communicable disease you thought was cured...
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2018, 04:04 AM
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Naga Royal Guard Naga Royal Guard is offline
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oh hell. ...
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2018, 05:34 PM
boston boston is offline
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Quote:
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Hyundai has no Toyota Land Cruiser, no Ford Ranger and no BMW X4 rival. Huge mistakes.
Hyundai doesn't need a Ranger or Ridgeline type vehicle. Its not a TLC or BMW type company either.
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