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  #271  
Old 05-02-2017, 12:24 AM
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swizzle swizzle is offline
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Marchionne is now dreaming of selling 230.000 Alfa Romeos and Maseratis this year according to Italian media...
Given how many debilitating reliability issues Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Consumer Reports have had with their Giulias, the specter of Italian inattention to quality, durability, and reliability is being reaffirmed rather than rebutted.

With the Ghibli and Qporte getting older by the minute, the pie-in-the sky sales projection won't come from massive sales increases of vehicles at the end of their product cycle.

The Giulia is off to a terrible sales start, so even if the Stelvio is game-changing--and it won't be--there is no way sales of these two brands are going to more than double.
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  #272  
Old 05-02-2017, 10:14 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Impossible to dethrone the Germans. Their (fake) image is too strong. To dethrone them one has to offer a better product in all ways for much less money. Only Tesla can do that. And Lexus did that with the first LS. I hate large (criminal) companies.
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  #273  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:00 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Default Chinese automakers covet FCA

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Representatives of a well-known Chinese automaker made at least one offer this month to buy Fiat Chrysler Automobiles at a small premium over its market value, Automotive News has learned. The offer was rejected for not being enough, a source said.

More at Automotive News...
Chinese made Jeep? That would be great and makes Jeeps more reliable.
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  #274  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:51 PM
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It's as I've been saying for some time. Sergio raped Chrysler for Maserati and Alfa Romeo's good--utterly failing on that account--and will sell the American carcass to the Chinese.
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  #275  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:57 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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It's as I've been saying for some time. Sergio raped Chrysler for Maserati and Alfa Romeo's good--utterly failing on that account--and will sell the American carcass to the Chinese.
Agreed.

My problem is the sale of most FCA brands would just be a short term cash injection for the remaining brands - but wouldn't address the fundamental underlying problem - which is QC.

I DO think that this would be a positive for Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Jeep as it would represent a potential MUCH needed cash injection. And doubters of Chinese QC need only look to recent Volvo products to see that these concerns can be addressed.

Separately, it'd be great to see a company take over Dodge / Chrysler and give them some love as opposed to pillage them for ulterior motives. Dodge / Chrysler have proven time and again they CAN compete if there was some cash; Intrepid / K-Car / Caravan were all designed when these brands were on the ropes. Dodge / Chrysler have all but used their nine lives though....

Last edited by Crash; 08-14-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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  #276  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:03 AM
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..
My problem is the sale of most FCA brands would just be a short term cash injection for the remaining brands - but wouldn't address the fundamental underlying problem - which is QC...
I disagree and my reasoning is as follows.

Geely has run the bases well with Volvo and Volvo seems to have a quality product.

If they had not done so with Volvo, Anti-Chinese sentiment in Europe would have buried Volvo by now. Geely would probably understand that doing well by Jeep (American icon), Ram, and Dodge (American muscle) would drive sales (and profits) and destroying them with crass garbage would cause a tremendous Anti-Chinese backlash.

Additionally, this is a win/win for the USA/China if Geely throws in maintenance of American production.

Presumably, Dodge would get shared-custody rights to the Giorgio platform in the divorce from Sergio. Chrysler and Jeep crossover products could be Volvoized like Ford did to great success.

I actually believe a Chinese company would uphold quality control better than Fiat has and better than any European suitor.

Last edited by swizzle; 08-15-2017 at 01:53 AM.
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  #277  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:11 AM
Crash Crash is offline
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I disagree and my reasoning is as follows.

Geely has run the bases well with Volvo and Volvo seems to have a quality product.

If they had not done so with Volvo, Anti-Chinese sentiment in Europe would have buried Volvo by now. Geely would probably understand that doing well by Jeep (American icon), Ram, and Dodge (American muscle) would drive sales (and profits) and destroying them with crass garbage would cause a tremendous Anti-Chinese backlash.

Additionally, this is a win/win for the USA/China if Geely throws in maintenance of American production.

Presumably, Dodge would get shared-custody rights to the Giorgio platform in the divorce from Sergio. Chrysler and Jeep crossover products could be Volvoized like Ford did to great success.

I actually believe a Chinese company would uphold quality control better than Fiat has and better than any European suitor.
I meant by remaining brands Alpha / Etc... for the reasons you'd mentioned above, I think this would be a home run for Dodge / Chrysler / Jeep... I didn't word my original statement that well.

I hope this happens. Either sell them to someone who'll do something with them, or they wither and die (as they are presently).
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  #278  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:56 AM
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And doubters of Chinese QC need only look to recent Volvo products to see that these concerns can be addressed.
This has nothing to do with "chinese QC", the cars are fully developed in Sweden. Chinese are "only" injecting money, but they give them pretty much free hand from what I heard regarding development.
Both the Italian brands (as much as I love Italy otherwise *g*) and Jeep/Chrysler won't magically become more reliable when a chinese company buys them.
Volvo is more the exception of the rule, maybe Jaguar as well (interestingly both Ex-Ford brands) and all the brands that bought VW in the 90s (they all would be dead by now otherwise I guess)
It went terribly wrong with Daimler-Chrysler for example, and I would say Mercedes isn't known for bad QC in the first place.

Last edited by disap.ed; 08-15-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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  #279  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:35 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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This has nothing to do with "chinese QC", the cars are fully developed in Sweden. Chinese are "only" injecting money, but they give them pretty much free hand from what I heard regarding development.
Both the Italian brands (as much as I love Italy otherwise *g*) and Jeep/Chrysler won't magically become more reliable when a chinese company buys them.
Volvo is more the exception of the rule, maybe Jaguar as well (interestingly both Ex-Ford brands) and all the brands that bought VW in the 90s (they all would be dead by now otherwise I guess)
It went terribly wrong with Daimler-Chrysler for example, and I would say Mercedes isn't known for bad QC in the first place.
Not sure I agree with you here.

People within Chrysler / Dodge / Jeep are likely painfully aware of their products shortfalls (abysmal QC, no product depth, lack of innovation, etc, etc). However, they lack the cash (likely as it's been funneled to BS Fiat products, slow selling Alpha products and other products within the umbrella) to do what needs to be done. So, if the Chinese buy they brands, invest the $$$ needed - and the products remain developed within N/A, then exported that solves the problem; similar to what happened w/ Volvo.

I'll take it one step further through...Buick remains a smash hit in China. It's a North American product; imagine how successful a 300 or 200 would be if designed properly and QC to back it up IN China as a Chinese company? The potential is staggering.

I do have to wonder how The Donald would react to such a sale; I'm hopeful that as a pragmatic business person, he'd be ok w/ it - ESPECIALLY if it meant more exports to China, which would translate into more jobs...
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  #280  
Old 08-15-2017, 01:49 PM
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This has nothing to do with "chinese QC", the cars are fully developed in Sweden. Chinese are "only" injecting money, but they give them pretty much free hand from what I heard regarding development...
That's the marketing BS that Jaguar/Land Rover and Volvo have used and it was necessary to fling that BS due to racism toward the cultures from which Tata and Geely come. Neither company bought a hobby and willy nilly poured cash into it no questions asked. The Chinese are NOT that stupid. Furthermore, to assume that the Chinese were incapable of transforming Volvo and that Geely had nothing to bring to the table and had to be hands off so Volvo could do show the feckless Chinese how it's done is just more bigotry talking.

Geely products have also benefitted as well because Volvo isn't just engineering Volvos these days. Thus, it really IS about Chinese quality control when you think about it. Volvo is Chinese and it has had a profound effect on Geely's other products.

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Originally Posted by Crash View Post

I do have to wonder how The Donald would react to such a sale; I'm hopeful that as a pragmatic business person, he'd be ok w/ it - ESPECIALLY if it meant more exports to China, which would translate into more jobs...
It's a total win for Trump politically. Doing nothing means that thousands of American jobs are lost. The Chinese investing in Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep ESPECIALLY if they commit to maintaining American production is the quid pro quo.

The Chinese will be far better partners than the carpet-bagging jerks from Mercedes and Fiat.

Last edited by swizzle; 08-15-2017 at 01:54 PM.
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