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  #41  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:17 PM
boston boston is offline
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Getting parts for my 23 year old Land Rover is possible, but not all of them. You end up with specialist breakers in the business.

Chances of that happening with a Chevy Ford Honda Toyota is slim.
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  #42  
Old 06-26-2018, 06:52 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
I think the real challenge with cars of today (or even already 10 - 15 yeras old) in 50 years will be ot the lack of emotion, but the electric issues, and the lack of available know how for all the bells and whistles (many major electric faults already require specialized tools/equipment that not all large dealers have), or simply parts not available anymore. Yes, availability ain't new, but mechanical stuff can be reproduced. But reproducing an ECU, infotainment screen, ESC control unit and getting that to talk to 50 year old rest of components? Which of the 500 sensors is giving the faulty signal that sends the car into limp mode, and finding that without a dealer software diagnosis?That will be a challenge indeed, that won't be able to be done with love and passion in your garage, unfortunately...

Stories of how NASA has problems getting to their older data, or McLaren has to keep "stone age" laptops around to be able to service the McLaren F1 are IMO a glimpse of what we can expect for our nowadays cars once they become vintage models...
If all the source code was released -- after the car is no more produced -- it would not be a problem. But today little is done from scratch, so a lot of code is retained, so no chance of one day having that.

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Originally Posted by boston View Post
Getting parts for my 23 year old Land Rover is possible, but not all of them. You end up with specialist breakers in the business.

Chances of that happening with a Chevy Ford Honda Toyota is slim.
Depends which. Honda and Toyota parts are available for a long time, and then even outsourced. The Toyota 1HZ/1HD I6 is still built.
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  #43  
Old 06-27-2018, 06:04 AM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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If all the source code was released -- after the car is no more produced -- it would not be a problem. But today little is done from scratch, so a lot of code is retained, so no chance of one day having that.
I'm not an engineer or a programmer, but what does releasing the source code have to do w/ replacing legacy hardware?
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  #44  
Old 06-27-2018, 08:02 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
I'm not an engineer or a programmer, but what does releasing the source code have to do w/ replacing legacy hardware?
That indeed, and even on say 10 year old cars you already end up often with some electric components unable to talk to each other, because there are several versions out there, depending on MY, market or even production place and thus different suppliers.

I used to have an early Mk.2 LR Freelander (LR2 in the US), which loves to chew through it's rear differential/haldex system; The old Haldex has to much pressure, and there are several upgraded systems in later MYs, Evoques or Disco Sports, but none of the systems will talk to the ECU/Terrain response, so basically you have to replace a defective part with one you know will break soon too, or go through replacing half of the electronics as well so no error codes show up. And that is a car that was sold with 2 engines over a longer lifespan - imagine getting parts together for models where there are MY upgrades regularly, with several different engines, and the cars built at 3 different locations depending on body style, engine range or local market...

Ultimately, the try and error or reprogramming will be so much work that it will deem many not so collectible every day cars scarp despite probably basic mechanical parts or the body in terms of rust holding up much better than 50 years ago. Already now (European) vintage car magazines give an indictaion what#s to come with early electrically overloaded luxury cars now becoming old enough to be considered classics, like a BMW 8 series, or especially the R129 Mercedes SL, and how many of them end up being unfixable once you start looking into them....
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  #45  
Old 06-27-2018, 08:08 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
I'm not an engineer or a programmer, but what does releasing the source code have to do w/ replacing legacy hardware?
Source code is a digital specification. If the manufacturer or supplier does not make the electronic component anymore, some other third party could. The same goes for solid parts. An engine block can still be made by a third party as it is the case some times, also with many other parts, but the physical specification has to be known, to achieve OEM quality if desired. The difference is that making solid parts is easier, because you can to some extent figure out the physical specification by manual (or laser) measurement (reverse engineering). Reverse engineering source code (necessary for programming) is a very hard and tedious task, not worth the effort (cost) for any third party in this case.
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  #46  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:12 PM
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pjl35 pjl35 is offline
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It's amazing what some real-life pictures will do compared to the horrible press shots. Dare I say I'm finding it fairly attractive now:













https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/10/...#slide-7373362
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  #47  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:23 PM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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I agree, that is an attractive cross over; I don't know whether I'd say it's a plus it looks even more like a Lexus or Mazda than a GM product here....
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  #48  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:16 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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What is volume that we have on SUVs/CUVs? Is there a tank or are the batteries located there?



If that volume is empty they should get rid of it. It might then at least get some credentials at "crossing over".

Even swizzle's old Mustang -- a sports car -- is better at crossing over than any SUV/CUV out there.

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  #49  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:01 PM
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pjl35 pjl35 is offline
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What is volume that we have on SUVs/CUVs? Is there a tank or are the batteries located there?



If that volume is empty they should get rid of it. It might then at least get some credentials at "crossing over".

Even swizzle's old Mustang -- a sports car -- is better at crossing over than any SUV/CUV out there.

Huh? Please expand because I don't get what you're referring to. You've just circled the bottom of the doors...what do you mean "get rid of it"?

If you're talking about the trim pieces, it's a design trick to reduce the slab-sided look that would be there if they were absent. If you're talking ground clearance, well, welcome to the world of crossovers...
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Last edited by pjl35; 07-11-2018 at 04:09 PM.
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  #50  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:26 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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It might be that the real life looks better than the pics....to me, I still find these pretty weird looking. There are elements of greatness - completely marginalized by elements of dumbness; case in point, the grill -almost enough to make a Toyotal Avalon blush; looks like the face of a 1980's Cylon had a baby w/ Darth Vader.
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