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  #21  
Old 01-10-2018, 04:59 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by Crash View Post
As an owner of 2 EV's...and I commute 150 KM per day; one of the things I realized (but didn't think about before buying) is that I charge at home...I've installed a dryer plug in my garage, and that gets me a full charge in a few hours....so, I come home, plug in and am ready to go in the AM...no more stops at gas stations. That's a wonderful convenience. When answering questions to my friends about EV's -they immediately 'got it' from the convenience stand point - so I think that might also be contributing to the dominant mind share vs. hydrogen.
Not sure in what type of setting you live, but I also wonder if the type of "green" car that gains traction will depend on the setting. I live in an area that actually has one hydrogen fueling station and has a ton of publicly accessible EV charging stations. However, I live in a multi-residential bldg that has NO EV charging station. If you can't charge at home, the logistics of trying to get your EV charged is something that does cause pause when it comes to the purchase. Whereas if your commute is relatively short or confined to an area where there are at least a few hydrogen fueling stations (and those stations could presumably be as much as 50 mi apart b/c of the ease of fueling), then maybe hydrogen will make sense. Esp if ICE gets outlawed in highly urban areas (which might happen in California) and more makes hop on the subscription-based lease model (so you use an EV or FCV for your daily commute but maybe use ICE if you're taking a road trip).

It will be interesting to see what the next 20 yrs brings....
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:26 PM
Crash Crash is offline
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My charger (literally a dryer plug) is installed in my garage...admittedly, people who live in condo's have a challenge in that regard.... if you're in a townhouse w/ a garage - shouldn't be an issue.
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2018, 08:10 PM
drugmirko drugmirko is offline
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Originally Posted by Crash View Post
My charger (literally a dryer plug) is installed in my garage...admittedly, people who live in condo's have a challenge in that regard.... if you're in a townhouse w/ a garage - shouldn't be an issue.
I'm not familiar with "dryer plug" expression.... what is its power in kW? how many phases does it have... one? three? what is battery capacity of your EV? cause even in your situation things can get complicated if every household in your neighborhood would have an EV.. or in time, even two. with combined capacities of well over 100kWh per household... this would have rather unpleasant impact on power grid in your neighborhood. thoug still lesser problem than in case of bolded paranoidgarliclovers sentence ;).... or in the case of that block of flats i posted earlier, where's 500 or more apartments is packet in not that big block settlement... just calculate the necessary grid power needed to safely withstand the load, if each apartment owner there owns an EV with only 50kWh battery and wants to charge it overnight... the number might be "impressive" (as well the cost of instalation because of it) though we are talking about a block settlement with only around 1500 inhabitants... and with space to install all the necessary infrastructure with just digging the lawn between the buildings....
and then imagine how easy would be to install equal amount of power in 500 large, multi level underground parking space in highly urbane area, where's no "lawn to dig up and lay down the power cables".... if nothing else, just cables for one 22kW charging station are "slightly" thicker than those for average kitchen owen (which tends to be one of the larger household "power hogs"), let alone for 500 of them... ;)
and when you do that, calculate how many of such (or even much biger) settlements or parking houses are just in jour area... power numbers climb insanely fast and definitely much, much faster than people tend to think... IF we are talking about real MASS use of BEV's, that is!


Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
Not sure in what type of setting you live, but I also wonder if the type of "green" car that gains traction will depend on the setting. I live in an area that actually has one hydrogen fueling station and has a ton of publicly accessible EV charging stations. However, I live in a multi-residential bldg that has NO EV charging station. If you can't charge at home, the logistics of trying to get your EV charged is something that does cause pause when it comes to the purchase. Whereas if your commute is relatively short or confined to an area where there are at least a few hydrogen fueling stations (and those stations could presumably be as much as 50 mi apart b/c of the ease of fueling), then maybe hydrogen will make sense. Esp if ICE gets outlawed in highly urban areas (which might happen in California) and more makes hop on the subscription-based lease model (so you use an EV or FCV for your daily commute but maybe use ICE if you're taking a road trip).

It will be interesting to see what the next 20 yrs brings....
yes, that's what I'm talking about... if there is an FCV station, filling is not much more complicated or time consuming than filling the gas tank... so they wouldn't have to be much frequent than gas stations, even if EVERYBODY would use FCV...

but, as I said in my previous post... the prevailing technology in the end will be the one that will give us the highest energy density per unit depending on ease of use, safety of use and refill/recharge time needed... and at this time neither BEV, nor FCV are really brilliant in those things... or really prepared to support true mass use of them.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2018, 10:30 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by drugmirko View Post
but, as I said in my previous post... the prevailing technology in the end will be the one that will give us the highest energy density per unit depending on ease of use, safety of use and refill/recharge time needed... and at this time neither BEV, nor FCV are really brilliant in those things... or really prepared to support true mass use of them.
No, I agree w/ you. That's why people who think that the ICE is dead are very, very wrong, IMHO. A mature technology w/ vast infrastructure, relative cheap fuel (for now), etc., etc., etc. That's not going to disappear any time soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash
My charger (literally a dryer plug) is installed in my garage
Thankfully, I haven't had to change my appliances yet! How much juice does that give you???

My daily commute could very easily be accomplished w/ an EV, but I worry I'd get range anxiety if I get stuck in traffic or need the A/C on a very hot summer day....
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2018, 02:45 AM
Crash Crash is offline
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
No, I agree w/ you. That's why people who think that the ICE is dead are very, very wrong, IMHO. A mature technology w/ vast infrastructure, relative cheap fuel (for now), etc., etc., etc. That's not going to disappear any time soon.



Thankfully, I haven't had to change my appliances yet! How much juice does that give you???

My daily commute could very easily be accomplished w/ an EV, but I worry I'd get range anxiety if I get stuck in traffic or need the A/C on a very hot summer day....
Dryer plug is a 240 service.. pretty common ... it gives me about 40km per hour. My battery is about 400km of range; with a commute of 150km round trip, this leaves me ample range (especially as you plug in each night).

Extreme cold or extreme heat is the natural enemy of batteries; you lose an easy 30% on range. I had a 400km commute last week, in -26... fortunately there was a supercharger about a km from my clients, so I plugged in, grabbed lunch (call it 20-30 mins) and topped up another 200kms. That night, I was stuck in a traffic jam and made it home with ample range. Itís weird to get your head around at first, but itís become second nature to me now.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2018, 02:51 AM
Crash Crash is offline
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Originally Posted by drugmirko View Post
I'm not familiar with "dryer plug" expression.... what is its power in kW? how many phases does it have... one? three? what is battery capacity of your EV? cause even in your situation things can get complicated if every household in your neighborhood would have an EV.. or in time, even two. with combined capacities of well over 100kWh per household... this would have rather unpleasant impact on power grid in your neighborhood. thoug still lesser problem than in case of bolded paranoidgarliclovers sentence ;).... or in the case of that block of flats i posted earlier, where's 500 or more apartments is packet in not that big block settlement... just calculate the necessary grid power needed to safely withstand the load, if each apartment owner there owns an EV with only 50kWh battery and wants to charge it overnight... the number might be "impressive" (as well the cost of instalation because of it) though we are talking about a block settlement with only around 1500 inhabitants... and with space to install all the necessary infrastructure with just digging the lawn between the buildings....
and then imagine how easy would be to install equal amount of power in 500 large, multi level underground parking space in highly urbane area, where's no "lawn to dig up and lay down the power cables".... if nothing else, just cables for one 22kW charging station are "slightly" thicker than those for average kitchen owen (which tends to be one of the larger household "power hogs"), let alone for 500 of them... ;)
and when you do that, calculate how many of such (or even much biger) settlements or parking houses are just in jour area... power numbers climb insanely fast and definitely much, much faster than people tend to think... IF we are talking about real MASS use of BEV's, that
It sure the answers to your Qís re: phase / etc.. sorry. Itís a 240 service.

One of my good friends is an engineer with the local hydro company, and we talked about the stresses on the grid with the adoption of EVís. He said the city started upgrading infrastructure a while ago (+10 years at least) when it became obvious that EVís were going to be a thing. Currently, if there was a 13x increase, the grid could handle it...so who knows what the further holds. Put another way, where I live, the impact to the grid can be handled... with every major car company (notably GM) betting big on them, understanding the impact to the grid was actually a consideration for me.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:15 AM
drugmirko drugmirko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash View Post
It sure the answers to your Qís re: phase / etc.. sorry. Itís a 240 service.

One of my good friends is an engineer with the local hydro company, and we talked about the stresses on the grid with the adoption of EVís. He said the city started upgrading infrastructure a while ago (+10 years at least) when it became obvious that EVís were going to be a thing. Currently, if there was a 13x increase, the grid could handle it...so who knows what the further holds. Put another way, where I live, the impact to the grid can be handled... with every major car company (notably GM) betting big on them, understanding the impact to the grid was actually a consideration for me.
o, yes... now I see that it says Ontario, Canada in your basic info... :)

I'm engineer to... a "high voltage" engineer, so to say.... at least used to be , cause life took me in completely different direction :). but, I did finished my studies with thesis titled "Power consumption structure of 0,4kV grid" in my country. so I stil understand a thing or two about power, production, grids and how they work, even if there is well over 25 years since I finished studies... upgrades of the production and distribution infrastructure will be necessary in case of mass EV use. shorter the time for that, more expensive they'll be... and it will impact every item you have listed on your electricity bill, down to the price of kWh...
I really didn't think much about all this until one day, when I decided to go to local supermarket with a bike instead with a car. I took a shortcut between the buildings of a block settlement near where I live.... and I saw an EV parked amongst the cars on the parking, plugged to a cable, dangling from the window in the third floor... ! then, looking at that "absurd scene" and the quantity of other parked cars, I realized the problem... from "practical" point of individual user, to "energy&grid" aspect... ;) :).
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