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  #21  
Old 01-11-2017, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
Japanese cars don't sell hugely well in Europe...Is it a size thing? A driving dynamics thing? An overall sense of solidity (about the chassis itself, not how well the car holds up over time)?
I think it's a jingoism thing.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:54 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
And Europeans (I'm using you to represent all Europeans.... ;) ) just don't get Americans very well. The masses that buy Toyota Camrys probably don't even cross shop VWs. It's not the styling that Americans care most about; in this segment, it's mainly about reliability and cost to own (and Toyota will still ilkely do very well in those areas)...
Ocassionally a too dramatic change in style might still "shock" customers, but otherwise I agree, if you purchase for reliability and long term quality, you should not cross shop a VW when coming form Toyota....

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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
My read of the comments of the folks in Europe is that a nice interior is "good quality" but poor reliability is not a sign of "bad quality".
Well no one says unreliable cars are good quality, and actually most people caring about definitely choose reliability over materials/fit&finish ("nice interior"). However it seems to me that European magazines really just value the "Showroom quality", which is exactly the strength of VAG products with soft plastics (or at least they used to have them, most new ones IMO are not better in terms of "softness" than any other average car) and matte soft paint (which wears down in 3-4 years latest). And people who don't care much about cars just don't care, and if they hear "quality", they probably remember a 3 line article about the newest Golf/Skoda/Audi in the tabloid and think "ahhh...".

The other thing is that tastes are naturally different between continents, and most Japanese car companies simply rather cater Asian or American tastes, depending whether we talk small or larger cars. A European or Korean "Euro only" model simply caters the tastes of masses better, so many Toyotas or Hondas simply end up as too "strange for European taste", at least for the masses. Sales figures often also are due to limited engine ranges, and higher pricing of Japanese cars than in the US (not only an exchange rate thing, but European manufacturers often offer seriously stripped out base models at low entry prices, even premium ones, with tiny engines, where Japanese ones come already better equipped with some mid spec engine and thus a way higher base price, again a "psychology thing")
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2017, 05:49 PM
Swallow Doretti Swallow Doretti is offline
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
Japanese cars don't sell hugely well in Europe (although I think someone posted figures that Lexus was growing nicely), from what I understand. I assume that Japanese cars in Europe are as reliable as their U.S. counterparts (even if the U.S. has unique models). Is it a size thing? A driving dynamics thing? An overall sense of solidity (about the chassis itself, not how well the car holds up over time)?
A lot of it is they make the wrong cars for the market. Honda only has one diesel in Europe (the 1.6 i-DTEC--which they've said they're going to not replace), and Toyota's driving dynamics are not at all in line with European tastes. Mazda also suffers in lacking the smaller diesels Europe tends to like, since cars are taxed on CO2 emissions, which is why you see a lot of small turbodiesel motors running with an AdBlue-type substance. And none of the Japanese makes save Toyota compete in the popular city car segment, and Toyota's entry, the Citroen C1-derived Aygo, is terrible.

Nissan and Hyundai/Kia do a lot better on the continent because they have more diesel options, and have worked hard to align their vehicles with European tastes in terms of size.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:27 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Don't want to contribute more to thread drift, but thanks for the resposnes. It's always interesting to hear how things are and how they are perceived in other parts of the world....
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:17 PM
ocn75 ocn75 is offline
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Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
Don't want to contribute more to thread drift, but thanks for the resposnes. It's always interesting to hear how things are and how they are perceived in other parts of the world....
Agreed. I second that.
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:21 AM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Websites are reporting that journalists are now being allowed first drives in the new Camry but all reports are embargoed until 06/21. One interesting tidbit is that the V6 will produce 306 hp (!!!).
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:29 PM
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If the V6 has 306 hp, I wonder if a new Avalon will happen or whether the Camry will have a luxury model, the Avalon dies, and the Lexus ES covers the gap.
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  #28  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoidgarliclover View Post
Websites are reporting that journalists are now being allowed first drives in the new Camry but all reports are embargoed until 06/21. One interesting tidbit is that the V6 will produce 306 hp (!!!).
More info...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XL_gKPSvTk

Quote:
The 2018 Toyota Camry, that TFL car was invited to drive in Portland, Oregon earlier this week,*is actually three distinct vehicles. The V6, which has a 301-hp, the 4-cylinder, which has either a 203 or 206 hp (depending on the trim level) engine, and the 2018 Toyota Camry Hybrid, which make 208 hp via its electric motor working*with its gas engine.
- http://www.tflcar.com/2017/06/2018-t...g-facts-video/

Last edited by AM2; 06-10-2017 at 07:48 PM.
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  #29  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:36 AM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Yes, I saw some of those videos. :) I'm really interested in seeing what Toyota has been able to do w/ the ride/handling balance. One the rental I had for a wk (I know, not the best way to judge a car), the SE had a ride that was mildly flinty, and yet the handling was nowhere near sporty (or even athletic).

I also think it's great that the hybrid batteries don't eat into trunk space.

Can't believe I'm actually excited about a Camry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle
If the V6 has 306 hp, I wonder if a new Avalon will happen or whether the Camry will have a luxury model, the Avalon dies, and the Lexus ES covers the gap.
I think the Avalon has served it's purpose, but I just don't think full-sized cars are all that popular anymore. Will be interesting to see what happens b/c aren't there rumors that the GS will disappear?
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:50 PM
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The all-new Camry looks very much like it could be a restyle of the current one. The new Camry isn't ugly, but it's not attractive either. Most people will only know its a new Camry only if they see it with the dealer name in place of the license plate. If this is Toyota's idea of thinking outside the box, then it's not far enough outside the box. Granted the new Accord is an unknown quantity, but stylistically, the new Camry looks 5 years old. It probably has all the virtues of a Camry, but who cares?
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