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  #11  
Old 07-20-2017, 04:49 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard View Post
The miata hasnt power, never did; the S2000 had a good measure of it and kept up with the six cylinder boxsters of its time.
Perhaps kept up w/ the Boxster on the track, but wasn't part of the issue that the everyday livability S2000 wasn't as good? Track day specials aren't going to be big sellers, IMHO.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2017, 05:49 PM
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Perhaps kept up w/ the Boxster on the track, but wasn't part of the issue that the everyday livability S2000 wasn't as good? Track day specials aren't going to be big sellers, IMHO.
Bingo. The engine was rumbly (not in a good way), and because Honda designed it to have to be revved for power, the noise level was annoying. I test drove one. It was an exciting car, but the engine made it feel unrefined.

I'd rather have gobs of low-end torque and redline horsepower so it was not the car for me.

The Boxster is a ninja at the track, but can be a Camry when you want it to settle down. I remember driving a Boxster and thinking how normal it was despite being a true sports car.

But just like the Miata Miata fans who become volcanic with rage over the notion of offering an OPTIONAL engine (say with 300 horsepower), the S2000 fanboys lost their crap at the notion of offering a smooth, torquey V6 as an OPTION. A V6 model would have exploded sales.

In both cases, the people who want to think they are hardcore track warriors could still buy the standard versions, but those of us who want to enjoy the car would have an option too.
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:21 PM
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Again, the heavier V6 would have unsettled such a chassis and violated the purpose of such a car. Fine, a higher power 4 cylinder (with an even deeper redline :) ) isnt something I would fight with either.

But im not really the right person to ask about these things. :)
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2017, 02:31 PM
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Again, the heavier V6 would have unsettled such a chassis and violated the purpose of such a car...:)
That's total nonsense.

It's not like the V6 engine is obscenely heavier. If the chassis could be "unsettled" by a slight bit more weight in the nose then one of two things is true: (1) the chassis was of such poor design that a thrashy 4 was all the weight it could take or (2) the chassis engineers were incapable of changing springs.

Better question: Why get so triggered at the notion of a more tractable engine OPTION in the vehicle that would have had equal or better performance?
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2017, 05:37 PM
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Its a matter of taste, an intractable engine which requires some finesse to keep in its power band seems to suit a stripped down, small sportscar. And it adds just a touch of superbike to the equation. And because ... Racecar ;).

Dont worry, high RPM naturally aspirated power is going the way of vacuum tube amplifiers. IC engines will follow suit.

With all of this said im not at all opposed to an S2k with the old NSX v6 (and its 8000 RPM redline). Fair compromise?
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  #16  
Old 07-21-2017, 08:36 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard View Post
Its a matter of taste, an intractable engine which requires some finesse to keep in its power band seems to suit a stripped down, small sportscar. And it adds just a touch of superbike to the equation. And because ... Racecar ;).
And I think it was Honda's adherence to conceptual purity that was the prob. The # of people who want that kind of driving experience must be vanishingly small.

Never understood why the original NSX never sold better, though. They still look fantastic, even today.
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2017, 09:09 PM
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And I think it was Honda's adherence to conceptual purity that was the prob...
The same is true of both versions of the NSX. The real move was against the Corvette (i.e. "affordable" sports car) and such market placement would have resulted in far better sales, but more importantly more halo effect for the brand.

Honda may have the engineering might to design a "McLaren" but they don't have a brand where that car fits, but their adherence to conceptual purity deludes them into thinking they will be successful. The real reason the second NSX was delayed and delayed again was that the first one taught there was no business case for such a car. There still isn't. They have to earn their way up the ladder with solid hits, but that moment has probably come and gone.
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  #18  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:12 PM
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[quote=paranoidgarliclover;486739]And I think it was Honda's adherence to conceptual purity that was the prob. The # of people who want that kind of driving experience must be vanishingly small.

[quote]

Absolutely, and I am one of those terrible people who willingly compromises their personal comfort to get the feeling of pulling out of pit lane on the way to buy a loaf of bread.

To be fair, Honda did sell a lot of S2000s, or Atlanta just has a thick concentration of them.

The most viable and sustainable "sports car" is, in fact, the pony car : 4 seats, the rears have some use, a proper trunk, comfortable, affordable point of entry most, pricier options for some, and similar to operate as a sedan.
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  #19  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
The same is true of both versions of the NSX. The real move was against the Corvette (i.e. "affordable" sports car) and such market placement would have resulted in far better sales, but more importantly more halo effect for the brand.
The corvette is by far the most successful 2 seater, especially when transaction prices are factored in. And, like the 911, its hard to compete directly against and everyone is afraid to try because their intentions will be clear and the stakes are too high.

The Gen 1 NSX could have done it but Honda kept it un revised for far too long.

Ironic how the Gen 1 NSX inspired Gordon Murray's design of the GOAT McLaren F1 yet after many scraped concepts, Honda settles for a knockoff Mp4-12C/P1/R8.
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  #20  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:29 PM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by Naga Royal Guard View Post
Absolutely, and I am one of those terrible people who willingly compromises their personal comfort to get the feeling of pulling out of pit lane on the way to buy a loaf of bread.
Oh, stop being so melodramatic. ;) Nobody here is calling you terrible. You're just not at all representative of the car-buying population. :)

I think I've seen 3 total in the LA area. Admittedly, car buying in LA is way more about projecting perceived wealth than anything else (hence Porsches being as common as Camrys where I live).

I think there is something to be said for what swizzle is saying about the potential market (at least in the U.S.) for this car. Back when the Integra existed, I remember hearing some guy at the L.A. auto show saying, "Why would I pay THAT much $ for a 4-cylinder car when I get a V8 mustang for about the same price." Of course, he had to actually ask me what kind of engine the Integra had, so....
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