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  #41  
Old 01-25-2019, 03:19 AM
paranoidgarliclover paranoidgarliclover is offline
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Originally Posted by Crash View Post
- Dealerships need to look like 'near premium' - not used car lots (which in the US, that's what they look like from what I'd seen) and they're not much better in Canada (admittedly, I've not been in one in 3 years).
- Sales staff; at Mazda - they're useless. ABSOLUTELY USELESS. Not once did any of the Mazda dealerships call me back when we were shopping for my wifes replacement car. When I was buying, only 2 of the three called me back. They're product knowledge apparently consists of reading a tagline of a poster.
It's interesting you mention the dealerships. I've only been to one (which is literally located about 1 mi away from me), and the sales people were actually pretty good. Nicely dressed, very polite. Readily gave me a lease breakdown (incl MF) when I asked the first time.

The showroom was plain but clean. I actually thought they did a pretty good job of straddling a middle ground btw commodity-brand dealership and mainstream luxury brands.

But maybe my dealership was the exception....

BTW, I totally want Mazda to succeed (in the same way I want Genesis to succeed). But they gotta "pay their dues" first. I'm pretty sure Toyota was willing to lose $ on Lexus by making the LS insanely inexpensive vs. the competition until they had developed a strong rep. I think Mazda has good brand recognition in the US, but I don't think it has a strong or clear image. Zoom-zoom isn't enough b/c the gen population doesn't care how a car drives....
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  #42  
Old 01-25-2019, 04:05 AM
swizzle swizzle is offline
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Mazda is actually is big trouble. It has one model that sells really well (CX5), one that sputters along (the 3), and the rest are abysmal for sales.

"Retreating" upmarket with the 3 is exactly the opposite of what they need to do. They need to hold the line on the price and raise content or keep the content unchanged and lower the price. Then they need to lease with a vengeance.

Subaru has a much better shot at going near premium give that it is pretty much there.

My local Mazda dealer looks like a giant thrift store with a lot full of tired looking used cars and the new cars hidden from view. Customer service is non-existent.
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  #43  
Old 01-25-2019, 08:20 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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Mazda is actually is big trouble. It has one model that sells really well (CX5), one that sputters along (the 3), and the rest are abysmal for sales.
And the baffles me, because, tbh., IMO Mazdas are usually at the top of their segment in most respects, or, to put it in other words, many cars that sell better are inferior, no matter US or Europe; They look great, have premium interiors, are well engineered and drive great; Granted, engine lineup is usually a bit limited, but still, I think there must be something wrong in the marketing or the way they approach press with the amount of test cars (in European press,eg., they are hardly existent).
Making cars considerably more expensive won't help.....
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:43 AM
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CosworthKid CosworthKid is offline
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If only the Australia market was big enough to make a difference for Mazda, cause here the Mazda3 and CX-5 are always in the top sellers and the CX-3 and CX-9 also do really well in their segments. Mazda6 is also the most popular mainstream choice here behind the Camry.


I'd argue that the issue is the lack of any performance division. Mazda3's has warm version but nothing along the lines of the Focus ST/RS, Golf GTi/R, i30 N, Civic TypeR etc etc.
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:33 AM
mick78 mick78 is offline
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I'd argue that the issue is the lack of any performance division. Mazda3's has warm version but nothing along the lines of the Focus ST/RS, Golf GTi/R, i30 N, Civic TypeR etc etc.
I don't know if that makes such of a difference; Hyundai's N division is pretty much new - and they sold yb teh boatload before. Skoda's VRs models are "warm" models at best, and yet the brand is successful; Toyota doesn't even offer a Gazoo Racining model of the Corolla or Camry, and they sell. SO there must be something else, that is keeping Mazda's global sales low.....
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzle View Post
Mazda is actually is big trouble. It has one model that sells really well (CX5), one that sputters along (the 3), and the rest are abysmal for sales.

"Retreating" upmarket with the 3 is exactly the opposite of what they need to do. They need to hold the line on the price and raise content or keep the content unchanged and lower the price. Then they need to lease with a vengeance.

Subaru has a much better shot at going near premium give that it is pretty much there.

My local Mazda dealer looks like a giant thrift store with a lot full of tired looking used cars and the new cars hidden from view. Customer service is non-existent.
Mazda does pretty well outside of the US...in Canada, 3 and Civic fight for pole position for sales in that segment regularly...noting that the compact segment is more important in Canada than the US. Worldwide, I believe the 3 is a sales success within the context of that category (but don't have the stats to back that claim up).
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:22 PM
swizzle swizzle is offline
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Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
And the baffles me, because, tbh., IMO Mazdas are usually at the top of their segment in most respects.....
Disagree.

When I was looking for an automotive appliance, the Mazda6 simply was not as solid as a Camry or an Accord. A Fusion is better than a Mazda 6 as well. It's like something was "off" with the driving experience. There was nothing "zoom-zoom" about the experience.

I honestly do not know how anyone could choose a Mazda3 over a Civic. The Civic is as ugly as sin, but as a car it's way ahead of the competition.
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2019, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mick78 View Post
I don't know if that makes such of a difference; Hyundai's N division is pretty much new - and they sold yb teh boatload before. Skoda's VRs models are "warm" models at best, and yet the brand is successful; Toyota doesn't even offer a Gazoo Racining model of the Corolla or Camry, and they sell. SO there must be something else, that is keeping Mazda's global sales low.....

True about Hyundai but they made an impact in Europe quickly because of how keenly priced they were and their warranties. Once the cars also became known for reliability they really took off. The N versions will add to their street cred and attract a lot more buyers in the brand who would have normally not consider an i30.

Other than i30, Hyundai sells a good number of Tuscon models and the larger Santa-Fe. The i30 in basic Go trim undercuts all competitors from Toyota, Mazda etc at a time when the brand-new Corolla, Focus and up-coming Mazda3 are more expensive and do not offer basic-spec models anymore.


KIA is a mixed bag. The Sportage had been a great seller but not sure how it is selling now. The Stinger was a great halo car but its been consistently outsold by the Mustang here.

Mazda, just like all Japanese brands in Europe, tend to be more expensive to buy than their Euro equivalents which is normal. People would buy a Volkswagen, Ford, Skoda, Peugeot from the Euro lot and then a Hyundai or KIA if they were after a reliable, good looking cheap alternative.



As for Toyota, does the Corolla really sell? Compared to the above brands i don't really think they do much in Europe apart from Rav-4, Hilux, Prius? And those models are mostly due to them being pioneers in their segments when they were first introduced i think. The Ford Ranger outsells the legendary Hilux last time i read there, the Prius is every green-thumbs poster boy when nothing else existed and the RAV-4 again was a segment leader when the gen 1 was introduced but now surely it's been outsold by VAG and other Euro offerings there?


In Australia its a different story. Hilux and Ranger are actually the 2 best selling models here but the Corolla hatch (Auris), Mazda3 and Hyundai i30 are following and have been for a while. Japanese cars here are more affordable as Australia is within the Asia-Pacific region so no surprises again. RAV-4 and Tuscon are also very popular.



The Ford Focus's sales took a nose dive a few years back as the Thailand-sources Powershift models proved to be dogs and tarnished the reputation of the car. The Mondeo also took a hit in sales due to the association with Powershift which accounted for majority of models sold. With the demise of the Falcon and the shift in market, every Ford showroom in Australia is filled with different types of Ranger and Mustang, while a few Everest SUVs and Escape's can also be seen. The US-sourced Edge has just arrived here named Endura but seen no promotional efforts from Ford yet. Same for the all-new Focus range.



The Golf though has been within the top 10 and is a very popular model for VW along with the Tiguan. The Passat sells in decent number and so does the Polo considering that both of their segments have shrunk massively the last few years with the rise of SUVs and Crossover cars.


Mazda as i mentioned above has sold many many Mazda 3s and CX models so i am surprised it does not sell in the US and even EU. The MX-5 also sells OK if you consider that apart from Audi and the TT, no other competitor shifts any sales (hardly ever seen a BMW Z4, Mercedes SLK). Again this is more due to shift in market.


Going back to my previous point though, i firmly believe that Mazda 'abandoning' their performance division and halo cars such as their RX line while also following a more restrained, evolutionary approach to their designs may have killed some buzz? The MX-5 seems to be the only model that has some sentimental, legendary status with European buyers. The evolutionary process worked wonders for VW and Audi but Mazda hasn't hit the sweet spot outside of Asia-Pacific. Makes me wonder then why haven't they shaken things up with a different approach or even just adding a different pallet of colours. I swear 3/5 Mazda's or more on the streets here are in that red/Bordeaux colour at a time when VW is offering their Golf R in Europe in a billion colours!


Toyotas are every mechanic's darling so those shopping for reliability go for that, Camry is every taxi-driver's darling other than those who can afford a Mercedes E-Class (Europe). Cars like the 86 coupe keep giving buyers cheap and fun options. The all-new Corolla hatch has been getting rave reviews and sounds like a massive step in the right direction and despite it costing more than the car it replaces its already on the top 4 in sales here. The CH-R has also been a great image-changer and seller here. Toyota is a powerhouse in Australia.


Honda's new Civic and CR-V have done wonders to turn around the company's sales here in Australia along with the best-selling H-RV.



Subaru has their awkward looking yet cult-following models such as the Impreza WRX (again performance), Outback and Forrester models (including ST-line type add ons) plus the BRZ. The brand itself has never been a mass-seller in Europe though.


Mitsubishi has a large line of affordable SUV's of different sizes while their hatch and sedan offerings are probably all but dead.


Nissan is staying afloat in Australia mostly due to the X-Trail. Even the Qashqai is not selling as well as other Japanese, Korean or Euro offerings.



Not sure if the above really makes a lot of sense to all. Still doesn't excuse why Mazdas don't really sell in markets like the US. They are great cars to drive, look fantastic, quality keeps going up and up and so is interior design and their engines are great while reliability is also really good.
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Last edited by CosworthKid; 01-27-2019 at 05:14 AM.
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  #49  
Old 01-27-2019, 09:10 AM
Vormund Vormund is offline
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Whew, a lot to take in CK.

I do agree, they really need to bring back MPS/Mazdaspeed models.

their 2.5 Turbo put in the Mazda 3 and MX-5 tuned for a bit more top end power would be great. They've got all the pieces there, they just need to put them together.
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  #50  
Old 01-27-2019, 09:47 AM
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US spec


https://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...n/1166617.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMiiHMSybs
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